No Voltage at Coils (Next step ?)

[katanarider]

Hey guys I have a 88 1100,
I've not tried to work on this bike since I purchased last winter. Its just been too cold outside. Now its getting warm so I've put the volt meter on the coils and got nothing. I traced some wires and now I'm at the Igniter Unit (crazy expensive new ) . Next, I read over some old threads but didn't see anything about testing the Igniter Unit. I'm hoping this is not the problem and its just the Signal Generator. What should I do at this point ? Test the Signal Generator or Can I test the Igniter Unit ? How would I test each of these ?
Oh yeah, does this bike have a CDI or not ? If so, Where is it located ?
Thanks

[Kreylyn]

Hey guys
I've not tried to work on this bike since I purchased last winter. Its just been too cold outside. Now its getting warm so I've put the volt meter on the coils and got nothing. I traced some wires and now I'm at the Igniter Unit (crazy expensive new ) . Next, I read over some old threads but didn't see anything about testing the Igniter Unit. I'm hoping this is not the problem and its just the Signal Generator. What should I do at this point ? Test the Signal Generator or Can I test the Igniter Unit ? How would I test each of these ?
Thanks

Signal gen creates a small "pulse" to signal the igniter. It's not constantly on. The igniter should have power out constantly to both the orange/white stripe wire and the black wire/white wire for the signal to the coils, with key on. The signal from the signal gen tells the igniter to cut power to the black/white wires for the coils for them to generate spark.

Check that your getting power into the igniter (key on). If you get power in, but no power out... there is definitely an issue with the igniter relay internally.

The fix is replacement.

Krey

[katanarider]

The igniter should have power out constantly to both the orange/white stripe wire and the black wire/white wire for the signal to the coils, with key on.nto the igniter (key on).
Krey

Thanks Kreylyn
Do I put the volt meter positive on the orange wire and the volt meter negative on the frame/ground or put the volt meter positive on the orange and the volt meter negative on the black Igniter wire itself ? Plus since you say the orange and black should be charged at all times, should I put the volt meter positive on the black and the volt meter negative on the frame ?

The way you explained it is both orange and black have power out.
Which wire is power in to the Igniter to supply both wires ?

FYI: The way I tested the coil was volt meter positive to orange and volt meter negative to black.

EDIT: I think I know what you mean now. Orange is power in.
I'll keep you informed.
Thanks again

[katanarider]

Voltage on harness unpluged from Igniter
Orange wire= 9.25 Volts
Black/white wire= 0.19 volts
Is that good ?

[Kreylyn]

Thanks Kreylyn
Do I put the volt meter positive on the orange wire and the volt meter negative on the frame/ground or put the volt meter positive on the orange and the volt meter negative on the black Igniter wire itself ? Plus since you say the orange and black should be charged at all times, should I put the volt meter positive on the black and the volt meter negative on the frame ?

The way you explained it is both orange and black have power out.
Which wire is power in to the Igniter to supply both wires ?

FYI: The way I tested the coil was volt meter positive to orange and volt meter negative to black.

EDIT: I think I know what you mean now. Orange is power in.
I'll keep you informed.
Thanks again

Voltage on harness unpluged from Igniter
Orange wire= 9.25 Volts
Black/white wire= 0.19 volts
Is that good ?

Both wires that plug onto the coils should have power. Both should be over 12v. To create a spark, the black wire or the white wire has power shut down for a micro second. That causes the electrical field the secondary coil is making by having constant power collapse. When the field collapses, a significant charge is created and that grounds out the spark plug causing a spark.

So power out of the igniter to the coils should be 4 wires all with 12+v to the coils on all 4 wires. Check each wire with the orange test lead to the wire, and the black lead to the frame for a ground.

The power into the igniter is a thick orange wire.

Report details from that...

Krey

[katanarider]

OK, I come armed with details.
*Left Coil:
Orange/white= 9.30 volts
White= 0.02 volts

*Right Coil:
orange/white= 9.25 volts
black/yellow- 0.02 volts

*Igniter:
1)Plug one with 4 wires:
white/black stripe= 0.00 volts
black/white= 0.02 volts
black/yellow= 0.00 volts
orange/white= 9.25 volts

2)Plug two with three wires:
Blue= 0.00 volts
yellow= 0.00 volts
black/red= 0.23 volts

I guess I do have power on one side atleast.
The bike does not start or seem to fire at all. I even tried starter fluid but not one little sign of fire.

[Kreylyn]

OK, I come armed with details.
*Left Coil:
Orange/white= 9.30 volts
White= 0.02 volts

*Right Coil:
orange/white= 9.25 volts
black/yellow- 0.02 volts

*Igniter:
1)Plug one with 4 wires:
white/black stripe= 0.00 volts
black/white= 0.02 volts
black/yellow= 0.00 volts
orange/white= 9.25 volts

2)Plug two with three wires:
Blue= 0.00 volts
yellow= 0.00 volts
black/red= 0.23 volts

I guess I do have power on one side atleast.
The bike does not start or seem to fire at all. I even tried starter fluid but not one little sign of fire.

So looking at the wiring diagram and generaly speaking...

Oange/white wires at 9.xx volts is too low. Battery needs charged or replaced or you need to trace back to the battery to find where the massive drop is. It should be over 12v, and the bike won't spark at all much under 11v.

That said... the other wires at the coils should also have power. If those do not have power when the key is on... you will never have spark.

You have power going into the igniter, but none coming out.

I would say swap igniter with a known good at this point.

Krey

[blitz2190]

if you find that the battery is good and its old wiring you can do the relay trick and improve the connection to the coils, i beleive its in the wiki somewhere, on somewhere on these forums for sure.

[katanarider]

if you find that the battery is good and its old wiring you can do the relay trick and improve the connection to the coils, i beleive its in the wiki somewhere, on somewhere on these forums for sure.

Would the mod eliminate the voltage loss issue at the coils reguardless of the voltage out of the Igniter ?

[Kreylyn]

Would the mod eliminate the voltage loss issue at the coils reguardless of the voltage out of the Igniter ?

No. You have 2 issues and that would solve only 1.

The igniter is not transfering power from the orange/white stripe wire to the other 2 wires going to the coils. They are permanently cut out, when the igniter is only supposed to cut them when making a spark.

You still have an igniter issue.

Krey

[katanarider]

I bought another Ignitor but I still have weak voltage at the coil on the black/yellow wire and the white wire (0.25v). The orange remains low but still has 9.25v.
That lead me to investigate the Coil Relay Mod. Am I missing something because I thought both wires to each coil are supposed to have 12v. If thats true why are all the Relay Mod Threads only showing one relay to power the orange side. What about the other side of the coil ? It seems to me that my massive voltage drop on the black/yellow and white side are cause by a stuck Signal Generator switch. Is that possible ?

[Kreylyn]

I bought another Ignitor but I still have weak voltage at the coil on the black/yellow wire and the white wire (0.25v). The orange remains low but still has 9.25v.
That lead me to investigate the Coil Relay Mod. Am I missing something because I thought both wires to each coil are supposed to have 12v. If thats true why are all the Relay Mod Threads only showing one relay to power the orange side. What about the other side of the coil ? It seems to me that my massive voltage drop on the black/yellow and white side are cause by a stuck Signal Generator switch. Is that possible ?

The relay mod mentions only the orange wires on the coils because...

1. The spark is created from the electrical field of the coil circuit with the orange wires. The stronger that field, the larger the spark when it collapses. This circuit is always on when the key is switched on.

2. The black or white wires to the coils trigger the collapse of the field the orange wires create by temporarily having power cut to them. This happens for a fraction of a millisecond. Most relay switches would not keep up with this rate. Power is cut by a signal sent to the igniter that then translates that the igniter cutting power to the appropriate coil for create a properly timed spark.

I would suggest checking power coming out of the igniter for the black or white wires to confirm if they are truly not getting any Voltage output. If you see you have voltage at the igniter but not at the coils, then replace the wires between.

Krey

[Wild-Bill]

When you're testing voltage at the coils, unplug the wires from them and test from each wire to the battery ground. The orange wires should be at least 10.5 volts and the black/white wires should read very low or 0 volts. If the orange wire still reads less than 10.5 volts after disconnecting from the coil then it's time for the relay mod.

[katanarider]

When you're testing voltage at the coils, unplug the wires from them and test from each wire to the battery ground. The orange wires should be at least 10.5 volts and the black/white wires should read very low or 0 volts. If the orange wire still reads less than 10.5 volts after disconnecting from the coil then it's time for the relay mod.

Thats how I've been testing it after Kreylyn basically told me that.

I've unplugged the Signal Generator from the Ignitor to rule that out.
I still get 9+ volts going in (orange wire) but only 0.25 coming out (black/yellow & white). I did exactly how Krey suggested and tested at the lead (plug) instead of the wire ends. Same results. I ran a jumper wire from the battery(Pos) to the ignitor supply/coil supply wire (Orange&white). It jumped up at least a volt but still only about 0.25v out (black/yellow & white).
The ground (big black/white wire) is good !
The only thing I can think of is the second Ignitor is bad too.
If thats the case, what are the chances of them both showing the same issue with the same voltage output ?

[Kreylyn]

Thats how I've been testing it after Kreylyn basically told me that.

I've unplugged the Signal Generator from the Ignitor to rule that out.
I still get 9+ volts going in (orange wire) but only 0.25 coming out (black/yellow & white). I did exactly how Krey suggested and tested at the lead (plug) instead of the wire ends. Same results. I ran a jumper wire from the battery(Pos) to the ignitor supply/coil supply wire (Orange&white). It jumped up at least a volt but still only about 0.25v out (black/yellow & white).
The ground (big black/white wire) is good !
The only thing I can think of is the second Ignitor is bad too.
If thats the case, what are the chances of them both showing the same issue with the same voltage output ?

Maybe I am mis-understanding you but....

All 4 leads to the coils are hot wires putting power into the coils. Each coil has 2 separate circuits that need power.

If your not getting 12v at the coil on the black or white wires, then check where they come out of the igniter. That should be hot there too... key on of course.

It COULD be that you have a bad connector or wires between the igniter and the coils.

Krey