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Leaking oil after adjusting valves, any ideas?

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  • Leaking oil after adjusting valves, any ideas?

    OK, so I did the initial service on my bike (03 kat 600) at 600-ish miles (I'm at about 950 now) and got everything put back together and sealed up, so I though. Well, I was riding yesterday and stopped off at the dealership (they have a bar/restraurant and dirt track there for the kiddies) and noticed a spot of oil on the ground when I came back out. so, after a little inspection, sure enough, I've got some oil running down the left side. I haven't had time to take the lower and upper left fairing off to see where it might be coming from, but I'm guessing either the head cover gasket or the oil line on the left side. Is there anything else I should check out?

    A little background here...

    when I was putting the bike back together I actually had to tear it down/reassemble it twice. After the initial tear down and adjustment of the valves (the instructions in the factory manual are wrong, btw...) I put it all back together and started it up, and it ran fine. then it got warmed up and started to smoke, and when I'd rev it it'd hiccup at 2500 rpm. Well, I apparently had a vaccum leak because the head cover gasket on the front left (looking at it from the seat) and back right (actually the front of the bike) had not seated in the groove properly and was actually pushed inside. I immediately stopped the bike and tore everything back down and re-seated the gasket, but in the process nicked it on the front-left side. the cut didn't even go halfway through, though. I'm really hoping that's not where the oil is coming from.

    If it is where can I get that gasket from?

    EDIT: Just as a side note on this... the oil leak is EXTREMELY slow. I estimate I'm probably loosing about a teaspoon or less a day.

  • #2
    yeah you probably need to replace that gasket, get one from the your dealer, or from bike bandit or ron ayers. When you bolt that head cover back on, make sure you don't over torque the head cover bolts. Do so will compromise the gasket.

    Comment


    • #3
      speaking of... I couldn't find a way to get a torque wrench on the 5 bolts closest to the oil cooler because of the frame supports being in the way. Any suggestions?

      Comment


      • #4
        Strip the fairings off and clean off the engine, then recheck. It could be something as simple as a missing o-ring in one of the oil line hoses or a leak at the oil filter or drain plug. If it is the valve cover gasket, the sources arsenic quoted are suitable, or for fastest fulfillment, visit your local dealer (2 to 4 days depending on where they are compared to the national Suzuki warehouse).

        For the five bolts that you couldn't get the torque wrench onto, either use an L-shaped allen key and go easy (no gorilla force), or a wobble-tip allen wrench socket (which lets you open/close them at an angle). Remember, the purpose of these particular bolts is to stand up to a bit of oil spray and keep pressure on the gasket, not keep mechanical pieces from flying out, so they don't need too much force...

        Cheers
        =-= The CyberPoet
        Remember The CyberPoet

        Comment


        • #5
          Well now, I think this is basically covered. Darn another one I missed
          TDA Racing/Motorsports
          1982 Honda CB750 Nighthawk, 1978 Suzuki GS750 1986 Honda CBR600 Hurricane; 1978 Suzuki GS1100E; 1982 Honda CB750F supersport, 1993 Suzuki Katana GSX750FP. 1981 Suzuki GS1100E (heavily Modified) http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=94258
          Who knows what is next?
          Builder of the KOTM Mreedohio september winning chrome project. I consider this one to be one of my bikes also!
          Please look at this build! http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=91192

          Comment


          • #6
            you need to clean the sealer off the can end caps COMPLETELY and apply a LITTLE when you button it up.

            see my page
            http://www.pacifier.com/~trinc/katana

            clicky on the valve adjustment page.

            tim

            p.s. what did you think was wrong in the manual ?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by The CyberPoet
              Strip the fairings off and clean off the engine, then recheck. It could be something as simple as a missing o-ring in one of the oil line hoses or a leak at the oil filter or drain plug. If it is the valve cover gasket, the sources arsenic quoted are suitable, or for fastest fulfillment, visit your local dealer (2 to 4 days depending on where they are compared to the national Suzuki warehouse).

              For the five bolts that you couldn't get the torque wrench onto, either use an L-shaped allen key and go easy (no gorilla force), or a wobble-tip allen wrench socket (which lets you open/close them at an angle). Remember, the purpose of these particular bolts is to stand up to a bit of oil spray and keep pressure on the gasket, not keep mechanical pieces from flying out, so they don't need too much force...

              Cheers
              =-= The CyberPoet
              I can tell you it's definately coming from somewhere on/near the head as I can detect fresh oil in that general area. It's also pretty noticable on the engine casing down lower, but it's just a thin film down there and dirt likes to stick to it.

              Does the O-Ring on the oil line sit inside the connector, or is it more like a gasket and sits on the surface? I didn't even think to check to see if there was one there.

              Originally posted by trinc
              you need to clean the sealer off the can end caps COMPLETELY and apply a LITTLE when you button it up.

              see my page
              http://www.pacifier.com/~trinc/katana

              clicky on the valve adjustment page.

              tim

              p.s. what did you think was wrong in the manual ?
              The seal never actually came off the bottom end so I didn't think there would be any need for me to clean off the cam end caps and re-apply the suzuki bond stuff (which I didn't buy... ). If I have to replace the gasket I definately will be doing that, though.

              As far as what's wrong with the manual, well, the illustrations were off a bit. According to the illustrations when the cams are in position "A" (Notches pointing IN) you should be able to check all valves labeled "C" in the diagram, and when the cams are in position "B" (Notches pointing OUT) you should be able to check all the valves labeled "D".

              What I found is that with the cams in the two different positions the lobes of the cams weren't in the right position to check the clearances of the indicated valves. The right position being either "UP" or "OUTSIDE" not "DOWN" or "INSIDE." It appears you're missing the illustration on your page that demonstrates that particluar part of the process, but you know what I mean. I don't have the exact info with me but I marked in my book which valves should be adjusted together. I'll crack it open tonight and post what I put in there.

              Also, I saw in your guide that either the Kat you took pics on doesn't have the support back inside the frame that mine has or you removed it somehow. does it come out and I just didn't know it and/or think to check? that certainly would've made getting the cover on and off much easier...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TemtnF8
                Does the O-Ring on the oil line sit inside the connector, or is it more like a gasket and sits on the surface? I didn't even think to check to see if there was one there.
                The o-ring for the oil line connections sits in a groove in the face of the connector, so that it mounts flush to the block when the connector is bolted down. It's not a gasket material -- it's a true O-ring.

                Originally posted by TemtnF8
                Also, I saw in your guide that either the Kat you took pics on doesn't have the support back inside the frame that mine has or you removed it somehow. does it come out and I just didn't know it and/or think to check? that certainly would've made getting the cover on and off much easier...
                If you're mean the cross-bar above the valve covers, the cross-bar unbolts with two bolts on each side -- and should be removed for the valve cover access. California models additionally have a rubber sheet that gets in the way, as well as the PAIR valve that needs to be removed (above the distributors). Finally, dropping the top of the oil cooler helps access as well (put a towel over the front wheel fender to keep from scratching it up when you drop the oil cooler).

                Good Luck!
                =-= The CyberPoet
                Remember The CyberPoet

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by The CyberPoet
                  If you're mean the cross-bar above the valve covers, the cross-bar unbolts with two bolts on each side -- and should be removed for the valve cover access. California models additionally have a rubber sheet that gets in the way, as well as the PAIR valve that needs to be removed (above the distributors). Finally, dropping the top of the oil cooler helps access as well (put a towel over the front wheel fender to keep from scratching it up when you drop the oil cooler).

                  Good Luck!
                  =-= The CyberPoet
                  I did get the cross member above the valve cover (the one the gas tank basically sits on) off but there was a second cross member further back in the frame that I didn't even try to remove. This is the one that was causing access issues with the 5 bolts nearest the oil cooler. I didn't even think to try unbolting the oil cooler to get access from the back, and that may have given me the clearance I needed to properly torque those bolts.

                  Also, I managed to get the valve cover off and back on without removing the throttle, clutch, and choke cables. It would've been much easier if I had. Is information for removing these in the manual? If not where can I find that?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    if you look at the picture on my page for which valves to adjust it's upside down & i marked the intake side. the factory manual is correct if you have the orientation right.

                    to remove the cables look in the manual about replacing them - it's all in there.

                    tim

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by trinc
                      if you look at the picture on my page for which valves to adjust it's upside down & i marked the intake side. the factory manual is correct if you have the orientation right.
                      OK, that may explain why it was different to me, because the diagram wasn't labeled which side was which. I do remember it followed the same pattern (3 sets on one side, 1 set on the other, in each position) but wasn't the same as what the manual was showing in the orientation I had it in. I'll check again when I get home.

                      Thanks for all the good info guys, I'll let you know how it comes out.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TemtnF8
                        Also, I managed to get the valve cover off and back on without removing the throttle, clutch, and choke cables. It would've been much easier if I had. Is information for removing these in the manual? If not where can I find that?
                        Infinitely easier to remove the cables IMHO. Release them at the control end, then remove them from the carbs by loosening the retaining nuts at the carbs (holds the end of the sheath), and unhooking the cables. The easiest way to the press-on end of the metal cable out and into the retaining holes on the carb throttles that I've found is using a 6 to 8" pair of forceps; takes about 5 seconds a cable that way once the cable is loose at the other end.

                        Cheers,
                        =-= The CyberPoet
                        Remember The CyberPoet

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The CyberPoet
                          Infinitely easier to remove the cables IMHO. Release them at the control end, then remove them from the carbs by loosening the retaining nuts at the carbs (holds the end of the sheath), and unhooking the cables. The easiest way to the press-on end of the metal cable out and into the retaining holes on the carb throttles that I've found is using a 6 to 8" pair of forceps; takes about 5 seconds a cable that way once the cable is loose at the other end.

                          Cheers,
                          =-= The CyberPoet
                          I did remove the cables from the carb-end by unscrewing the bolts and taking it out of the mounting bracket, but I didn't remove the press-in's because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get them back in. I'll definately be removing them next time, though.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            OK, I think I isolated the problem. After removing the fairing from the left side and cleaning up the motor and letting it run for a few minutes it doesn't appear to be leaking from the gasket anywhere, which I'm glad for. however, after several minutes of running I found a spot I had neglected to clean and it was covered in oil, almost to the point of having a standing puddle... The area between the spark plug holes for cylinders 1 & 2... Upon further inspection I found that the seal for plug #2 was actually not seated properly in the hole. This leads me to believe one of a couple of things.

                            1. That oil leakage within the spark plug holes is semi-normal, although I have a hard time believing that

                            2. That the gasket in the hole for spark plug #2 between the cylinder head and the valve cover is not seated correctly and is spitting oil back out

                            3. That the head bolts between the two spark plug holes are either not torqued correctly or are missing a washer

                            in any of the above scenarios I'm going to have to go ahead and tear the whole thing down again, so I might as well just replace the gaskets (valve cover and all 4 plugs and the gaskets on the 4 center bolts) while I'm in there.


                            Also, Tim, you were correct. If I turn the book upside-down and look at the drawing it matches exactly with what I found to be the correct sequence of checking the valves. They really should have labeled the drawing to indicate which way is which... I had the valves so far out of adjustment when I finally figured out something was wrong that I'm sure I would've done some serious damage had I started the motor...

                            EDIT: The support I'm talking about having a hard time working around is the bar that the ignition coils are attached to. It seems to sit directly above and slightly offset from the centerline of the back 4 bolts on the valve cover. Is there no way to get a socket under there to use a torque wrench? Does removing the oil cooler help with that at all?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TemtnF8
                              EDIT: The support I'm talking about having a hard time working around is the bar that the ignition coils are attached to. It seems to sit directly above and slightly offset from the centerline of the back 4 bolts on the valve cover. Is there no way to get a socket under there to use a torque wrench? Does removing the oil cooler help with that at all?
                              I don't know if that bar can come off (welded or bolted?), but I take out the coils (mark them and the leads to them first), and drop the top of the oil cooler and have sufficient access.

                              Cheres
                              =-= The CyberPoet
                              Remember The CyberPoet

                              Comment

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