[arsenic]

I PREFER the Carbone Lorraine pads HS2020 sells, that's just my opinion. HH pads tend to be rotor killers and since I have wave rotors all around, HH is not for me.

[The CyberPoet]

Let's first get something clear:
HH is a friction rating, the highest friction rate brake pads are made in. The first letter represents cold behavior, the second represents hot-brake behavior. Unlike other categories, which represent a 10% slice of the friction spectrum, HH is assigned to anything that grabs at an over 55% friction rate. This means one brand's HH pads may grab at 56% and another at 85%. A+ pads are probably an HH rated pad as well (don't know, haven't tinkered with them, used them, etc.). Carbone Lorraine probably offers an HH rated pad as well.

OEM pads on the Katana are GG rated sintered semi-metallic pads. This is a good trade-off between heat generated and stopping power.

With a sintered pad, the pad works by depositing some of it's material on the rotor and then reacting against that. Rotors should never wear in theory, and in reality they wear because something else gets trapped between the pad & rotor that shouldn't be there (such as sand or clay dust) which scours off the coating & digs into the rotor. Keeping your rotors & pads clean (cleaning them regularly) will go a long, long way to preventing rotor consumption -- far more than brand X vs. brand Y -- and will improve your braking system by a big margin (typically by more than pad changes if you haven't been keeping them clean).

HH grabs more, but heats the rotors much faster as a result; fine if you're not on the brakes too much but need them to really bite when you are; not good if you're in a racing situation on a short track, or constantly going down-hill or canyon carving. For emergency stopping, it's a great trade-up, as long as your regular riding won't cause heat issues.

All that said, I've always run EBC (HH-rate pads) on the Kats and done so happily. Carbone Lorriane also has a good name in the industry, and I wouldn't disparage anyone from buying them from Jimmy (HS2020) -- just make sure what you buy is matched to your actual needs in terms of friction rates.

The biggest issues are all maintenance issues -- most riders I've met don't need better pads, they need cleaner rotors:
1. Get in the habit of cleaning your rotors (or rotors & pads) regularly. As much grime/oil is on your rims is how much is on your rotors stopping the pads from being effective. A bit of windex sprayed on a paper towel and used to wipe off your rotor once a week will help keep the rotors in very grippy shape (you'll be amazed at how much grime comes off on the paper towel the first several times). A garden hose spraying them down will knock all the sand/clay dust out unless it's already embedded in the pad (I recommend rinsing after any ride in the rain, as rain water tends to carry sand up there). Brake spray cleaners work well too, but avoid spraying it into the crack where the wheel bearings are (esp. in the front, where it's easy to do) -- this is why I usually recommend the windex trick instead.
2. Change your brake fluid at least every other year (at least every year in high-humidity locations). Cruddy brake fluid makes for possible brake failure when you expect it least.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

__________________________________________________ ________
CyberPoet's Katana Maintence and Upgrade Parts Offerings
The Best Metal Steel Aluminum Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

[H-2 CHARLIE]

Rear pads 2002 600

Hey cyber-poet nobody uses vesrah -rjl or srjl17--this will be for rears but dont want my rotors marked ??? Input please

[scottynoface]

Vesrah pads are for racing and extremely aggressive high speed riding (150+), I absolutely would not put them on my bike unless I were track riding. The rear locks up easy enough with the stock pads. But if you want, they're in the same price range so hey

[The CyberPoet]

Hey cyber-poet nobody uses vesrah -rjl or srjl17--this will be for rears but dont want my rotors marked ??? Input please

Well, let's see... input.
Vesrah is a Japanese company with a reasonably good name. They may be the OEM vendor to many manufacturers -- I have zero clue if the OEM pads on the Kat were Vesrah or not.

Here in the USA, it's hard to get concrete information on their motorcycle products' more specific specs (i.e. - which heat ranges, which metals are used, etc.), compared to several brands (EBC is very up-front about such things).

To understand their number system:
Prefixes:
- R means racing. They don't offer a racing compound for the Kats' pad needs. Many racing compounds are actually FF or GF (occassionally GG) because of heat-build-up issues running anything higher in a track racing application.
- SD means Semi Metallic.

Suffixes:
JL = Sintered Metal Pad, On Road [Motorcycle]
SJL = Sintered Metal Pad, Scooter
NONE = Organic Pad

Since the Kats aren't scooters, SJL makes zero sense for them either.
That leaves two pad choices for each of the various years from Vesrah -- a metal-organic and a sintered-metal pad. If I was using their brand specifically on a street-use Kat, I'd go with the sintered metal pad, since that is the correct pad for our rotor type (organics generally are made for bikes with calipers that specifically retract the pads [typically also equipped with cast iron rotors], while sintered pads are for bikes whose calipers leave the pads dragging very lightly [typically matched to SS rotors, like the Kats]).

That said, I'll stick to my EBC choices, in part because I haven't found better among the other choices I've tried, and in part because their race-tech department bent over backwards to help me (and even went as far as to send me a rear rotor & spare set of pads without charge).

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

__________________________________________________ ________
CyberPoet's Katana Maintence and Upgrade Parts Offerings
The Best Metal Steel Aluminum Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

[Tmod]

To understand their number system:
Prefixes:
- R means racing. They don't offer a racing compound for the Kats' pad needs. Many racing compounds are actually FF or GF (occassionally GG) because of heat-build-up issues running anything higher in a track racing application.
- SD means Semi Metallic.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

__________________________________________________ ________
CyberPoet's Katana Maintence and Upgrade Parts Offerings
The Best Metal Steel Aluminum Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

Actually you are incorrect about Vesrah offering a RJL pad for the kat they are part numbers VD-352RJL (Right Side) & VD-435RJL (Left Side). They do say you can use them for aggresive street riding and if you go to some different racer sites they use them on the street with great success. Attached below is a image of the friction graph of the RJL and above pads. I do agree though that there are several good pads out there and unless you are a all out aggresive street rider you may not benefit from the RJL's on the street.

Vesrah does offer the JL version which is rated HH and was designed for stock replacement, If I remember correctly the stock 06 750 pads are rated GG.



Tmod

[The CyberPoet]

Actually you are incorrect about Vesrah offering a RJL pad for the kat they are part numbers VD-352RJL (Right Side) & VD-435RJL (Left Side). They do say you can use them for aggresive street riding and if you go to some different racer sites they use them on the street with great success. Attached below is a image of the friction graph of the RJL and above pads. I do agree though that there are several good pads out there and unless you are a all out aggresive street rider you may not benefit from the RJL's on the street.

TMod, thanks for the feedback and the pretty friction chart (although with no data values).
When I pumped the various Kats through the manufacturer's cross-reference, I came up with no racing pads:

http://catalog.vesrah.co.jp/index_street_f.html

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

__________________________________________________ ________
CyberPoet's Katana Maintence and Upgrade Parts Offerings
The Best Metal Steel Aluminum Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

[katanawarrior]

When I pumped the various Kats through the manufacturer's cross-reference, I came up with no racing pads:

http://catalog.vesrah.co.jp/index_street_f.html

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

Here ya go Marc!

[Tmod]

TMod, thanks for the feedback and the pretty friction chart (although with no data values).
When I pumped the various Kats through the manufacturer's cross-reference, I came up with no racing pads:

http://catalog.vesrah.co.jp/index_street_f.html

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

__________________________________________________ ________
CyberPoet's Katana Maintence and Upgrade Parts Offerings
The Best Metal Steel Aluminum Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

The chart does nothing more than show the curve of the RJL compared to other Vesrah compunds, the RJL has a high initial bite and then stays flat. That graph was meant for a different post as it has nothing to do with your post but as you know when posts are close together they combine.

If you have a chart with some numbers for a brake pad comparison I would like to see it.

Tmod

[The CyberPoet]

Here ya go Marc!

That's the same as what I saw -- which doesn't have the R in the correct prefix slot for a racing compound... R vs L is right vs. left.

The chart does nothing more than show the curve of the RJL compared to other Vesrah compunds, the RJL has a high initial bite and then stays flat. That graph was meant for a different post as it has nothing to do with your post but as you know when posts are close together they combine.

If you have a chart with some numbers for a brake pad comparison I would like to see it.

I don't have any manufacturer-specific brake friction bite charts of the sort you posted (wish I did -- or that I had the data-capture equipment to make my own ); all I have is first-hand seat-time with different compounds/pads on the Kat, and a good working knowledge of the basis of both brake & pad technologies plus a thorough understanding of the friction classifications required by the DOT.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

__________________________________________________ ________
CyberPoet's Katana Maintence and Upgrade Parts Offerings
The Best Metal Steel Aluminum Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

[katanawarrior]

I don't have any manufacturer-specific brake friction bite charts of the sort you posted (wish I did -- or that I had the data-capture equipment to make my own ); all I have is first-hand seat-time with different compounds/pads on the Kat, and a good working knowledge of the basis of both brake & pad technologies plus a thorough understanding of the friction classifications required by the DOT.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

__________________________________________________ ________

Your Hired!

Sorry, sounded like something I would yearn to put on my resume

Didn't know that you were looking for race class info for the pads. Figured I would check it out and see, just posted my finding . Oh well, in over my head , so I'm on the way out

[Tmod]

That's the same as what I saw -- which doesn't have the R in the correct prefix slot for a racing compound... R vs L is right vs. left.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

__________________________________________________ ________
CyberPoet's Katana Maintence and Upgrade Parts Offerings
The Best Metal Steel Aluminum Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

You are correct in that Vesrah does not show a RJL pad, Even if you enter a 07 gsxr it won't show a RJL pad. Just add the R in front of the JL and you have the pad. Google for VD-352RJL or VD-435RJL and you will see the pads are available.

Tmod

[The CyberPoet]

Even if you enter a 07 gsxr it won't show a RJL pad

It would appear I was mistaken about placement of the characters for denoting racing grades, but no-Vesrah-racing-pads-for-kats rule still applies according to their database...

For your GSXR example, go into "racing" instead of the street lookup, and then enter GSXR, engine size 750, year 07, and it'll pull it for you:
VD-355SRJL (Super Racing)
VD-355RJL (Regular Racing).

If you pump the '07 GSXR 750 through the street apps, it'll pull the non-racing versions of the pads

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

__________________________________________________ ________
CyberPoet's Katana Maintence and Upgrade Parts Offerings
The Best Metal Steel Aluminum Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

[Tmod]

It would appear I was mistaken about placement of the characters for denoting racing grades, but no-Vesrah-racing-pads-for-kats rule still applies according to their database...

For your GSXR example, go into "racing" instead of the street lookup, and then enter GSXR, engine size 750, year 07, and it'll pull it for you:
VD-355SRJL (Super Racing)
VD-355RJL (Regular Racing).

If you pump the '07 GSXR 750 through the street apps, it'll pull the non-racing versions of the pads

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

__________________________________________________ ________
CyberPoet's Katana Maintence and Upgrade Parts Offerings
The Best Metal Steel Aluminum Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

Yep they must have not ever added those to their database. The 98-06 Katana have the same brake pad as the 99-08 SV650 and the 06-08 Kawi ninja 650R and Vesrah does not have them in their database as well. The RJL pads do exist for the post Katana's though it just isn't listed.

Tmod

[H-2 CHARLIE]

I live close to sudco international most of you know them there book shows them and kevlar /carbon - and sintered metal THESE WILL BE REAR ONES