Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.
X

Rear tyre width vs turning at speed

Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    The profile of your tires will have great effect on how the bike handles. Profile refers to the curvature if you were to do a cutaway to see line of the tread. See the tread line on this pic...




    A flatter profile (center has less curvature) will mean that turn ins are "slower" or... you have to actively work on turning the bike more with increased pressure for counter stearing.

    A higher profile (center has more curvature) will mean that turn ins are "faster" or... you have to work much less on turning the bike as just slight adjustments will make it want to "fall" into the curve.

    Generally a new tire should have an even curvature for the entire tread. As it wears depending on the riding patterns of the user, the profile can change. As has been mentioned for example, the "lots of highway" or straight riding with little leaning will mean that there is alot more wear center of the tire and less on the outter edge. This compounds to make a tire that is very flat in the center, but then has a sudden transition on the outter edges for the curvature of the tire.

    For a new rider, a worn tire like this can cause added insecurity when trying to learn to lean the bike. It means you have to give more forceful input to start the lean, but then the bike will suddenly want to "dip" when you get past the worn flat spot. That feeling will make a new rider feel like the bike is wanting to "drop" or fall over, so you tend to avoid leaning the bike. That can be a problem when leaning the bike is how you turn it and make it through those curves.

    Tire types will have different profiles as well. All tires are not the same at all. High traction sport tires will have a taller profile to make those turns much quicker/easier in how they feel. Touring tires will have a flatter profile to give a smother more relaxed ride.

    Finally tire size will play in how the profile of a tire will be. Generally improperly sized tires on rims can cause distorted profiles. Similiar to one that is very worn out, you end up with a variable in the transition.

    For example, an overly large tire on the rim will make a mushroom shaped profile from the start. See the pic below for a comparison...



    The black outline is an of a normal type of tire profile, it's evenly curved for the entire tread.

    The red outline is of an oversized tire... you can see how it's flattish at the center, but as it gets closer to the edge, the curvature increases more and more for a suddent drop at the edges.

    The green is to reflect the maximum angle that you would lean the bike (about 45 degrees or so) in most cases, and the blue is to show the section of tire on the over sized version that would never be able to be used (put to pavement) because it's curved over and pulled in too far.

    That's a more detailed "how do tires effect my ride" type answer.

    As for being a new rider, and honestly needing to learn the skills of how to do so well... I strongly suggest you check out some books and vids on the subject. There are some really good vids and books that give great detail on how to ride right and well. There are local riding programs offered in most US states to also give you some of that information. (advanced MSF course for example). "track days" can put you in touch with individuals that can help as well.

    Krey
    93 750 Kat



    Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

    "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

    Comment


    • #17
      I can't add much to that, but I will say that I agree...


      "A knight proves his worthiness by his deeds."

      Comment


      • #18
        I have noticed that a little flat spotting on my rear tires doesn't really effect the handling too much, but if the front tire begins to flatten out, it really gets spooky in a hurry. Also might be a good idea to double check your tire pressure. If one tire gets a few psi lower than recommended, it will be much harder to get leaned over into a turn, and might feel squirrely.
        John,
        '05 GSXR750, '86 FZX700 Fazer, wifes bike '02 R6
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #19
          I think Krey has a drawing for everything. That being said, new tires and you'll notice a world of differance. And yes, learn to countersteer can and will probable save you butt one day. Kats are fat and tur like a tank compaired to other bikes.
          When all else fails get a bigger hammer

          Comment


          • #20
            Have you checked your tire pressure? Stupid question yes but on my RoadAttacks, if they're a couple lbs off my steering is compromised a noticeable ammount.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by lockheed View Post
              That, I did. Thanks for clarification.

              Should I go for another 160/60 or original 150/70 rear?
              i have been riding for years and years. i recently had 150/70 rears and 160/60 rears. on the 150 i used all of the rear edges. not so on the 160. the 150 may turn in quicker than the 160.
              never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself sigpic2011,2012,2013,2014,2015,2016

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by lockheed View Post

                As for countersteering, I was doing it almost all the time during my ride and the effect is amazing. However, my friend has been riding 30+ years and just yesterday told me it is not a good idea for a new rider to turn by counterseering rather than simply leaning the bike/pushing on peg with your foot.
                Your friend is wrong. Please COUNTERSTEER

                Comment


                • #23
                  You have to countersteer. You don't have a choice. I even heard of a riding course that had a bicycle with the head tube welded so that people could try their "just lean it" theory out. It doesn't work- you just go straight. At low speeds, you turn the direction you want to go. At any reasonable speed, your only choice is to countersteer, whether you realize you are doing it or not.
                  Any and all statements by Loudnlow7484 are merely his own opinions, and not necessarily the opinion of Katriders.com. Anything suggested by him is to be followed at your own risk, and may result in serious injury or death. Responses from this member have previously been attributed to all of the following: depression, insomnia, nausea, suicidal tendencies, and panic. Please consult a mental health professional before reading any post by Loudnlow7484.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I have been a member of many forums, but the quality of answers I get on this one takes the cake.

                    I realised I did not check the tyre pressure except for just checking if I can squeeze them with my hand.
                    As for counter steering, I do it pretty well, I think, but every time I lean more than 20 degrees, I am weary my traction drops rapidly and stray grain of sand or gravel will jettison me off the road, sliding on my side.

                    Few more questions:

                    1. For the front, should I get 120/60 or 120/70? 70 is slightly more expensive and I read on here most people prefer 60 but I could really use some help with more 'turnability' at speed.

                    2. If I change tyres, do I also need to change the tubes or can I use the old ones if they fit the size?

                    3. Is any version of Michelin Road Pilot better than the other? I found a pretty good deal online on version 1 set of 120/60-17 160/60-17 ZR.

                    4. Can you change the tyre with the default toolkit found under kat's seat?
                    Last edited by lockheed; 07-06-2011, 04:45 AM.
                    GSX750F, 1998 (German market version), black.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by lockheed View Post
                      I have been a member of many forums, but the quality of answers I get on this one takes the cake.

                      I realised I did not check the tyre pressure except for just checking if I can squeeze them with my hand.
                      As for counter steering, I do it pretty well, I think, but every time I lean more than 20 degrees, I am weary my traction drops rapidly and stray grain of sand or gravel will jettison me off the road, sliding on my side.

                      Few more questions:

                      1. For the front, should I get 120/60 or 120/70? 70 is slightly more expensive and I read on here most people prefer 60 but I could really use some help with more 'turnability' at speed.

                      2. If I change tyres, do I also need to change the tubes or can I use the old ones if they fit the size?

                      3. Is any version of Michelin Road Pilot better than the other? I found a pretty good deal online on version 1 set of 120/60-17 160/60-17 ZR.

                      4. Can you change the tyre with the default toolkit found under kat's seat?
                      1: 120/70ZR17 only
                      2: tubeless
                      3: version 1 is out of production as far as I know, the rubber is too old stay clear of it. pr 2 is good I heard and pr 3 is better than 2.
                      4: no , take it to a shop
                      2015 BMW S1000R

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by mammut89 View Post
                        1: 120/70ZR17 only
                        Care to elaborate?
                        GSX750F, 1998 (German market version), black.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I believe that 120 / 60 has a lower max weight. Im sure I've read that before, but I only use 120 / 70, there is no price difference with my dealer, and the 70 is easier to get ahold of in the pilot power 2cts here.
                          1992- project katfighter
                          2005- GSXR750
                          2001- TL1000R
                          http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=111130
                          www.lunchtimecigar.com



                          KATRIDERS RALLY 2014 - cintidude04
                          KATRIDERS RALLY 2015 - cintidude04
                          KATRIDERS RALLY 2016 - cintidude04

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Actually, Freddie Spencer, one of the greatest racers ever (when he wasn't drunk), claimed he never countersteered. -Maybe he did and just never realized it.

                            A tire with a flat spot will give you less tire to contact the road at a high lean angle but it shouldn't stop you from leaning. Maybe you just need to practice a little more.
                            =USAF= Retired




                            "If you can be convinced of an absurdity, you can be made to commit an atrocity." -Voltaire

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by lockheed View Post
                              Care to elaborate?
                              I dont know why this is recommended. Others might know more about tires than I do.

                              I am refering to this :


                              2015 BMW S1000R

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by mammut89 View Post
                                I dont know why this is recommended. Others might know more about tires than I do.
                                I've done some digging and looks like 120/70 is better suited for a heavy bike like Katana, providing extra shock absorption vs 120/60 which rides very hard.
                                GSX750F, 1998 (German market version), black.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X