Could the new Kat be a........

[motomech]

Kawasaki.

I'm bike shopping an am looking at two clean, low mile examples, both around the same price. An '05 Kat 750 and one of these;

http://www.kawasaki.co.uk/product.asp?Id=3400EE39997

The Z750S is looking pretty good.
And they have a nice friendly forum, like this one(trying to shield myself for the slings and arrows to come.

It seems to have what many here rue for.
Nimble handling(for a 750).
Strong mid-range power.
Fuel injection.

Without sacrificing good ergos and wind protection.
Not perfect, buzziness above 80 m.p.h. and seat comfort are topics at;

http://zee750s.com/zeeforum/index.php

It's been mentioned here before, but only in passing.
It seems worthy of a better look.

[jday240]

Nice bike...I am considering a Z1000 when I upgrade in a year or so. I like the titanium color on some of the Z's.

[mather_builders]

Whichever bike feels better to you if you don't do a lot of distance riding. Very sharp kawi, I'd say the kat would be a little more comfortable over time. Good luck with your choice.

[Psycho1]

A friend of mine has a '08 Z1000. He picked it up when he decided his SV650 was starting to feel too slow. It handles really good for a sport touring type bike, but doesn't have nearly as much wind protection as a Katana does. He complains about fighting the wind at anything above 80mph or so, since there's not much room to tuck in behind the windshield, kind of like riding a naked bike/fighter. Seems more at home on the tight twisty roads, than out on the wide open interstates. Riding position seems to be very similar to the Katana, possibly even a little more upright. I haven't ridden it so can't comment on the seat or suspension comfort.

[The CyberPoet]

Comments on the Z750 (IMHO):

The Z's advantages you probably already know, but they are lighter weight, more power (but higher in the RPM range), better handling, fuel injection, usually better fuel mileage at steady-cruise, better ground clearance (because of the higher-mount muffler) and prettier instrumentation. The tube-style bars allow more customization of the riding ergonomics and are easily swapped to a different bend system if desired.

Disadvantages compared to the Kat are crap mirrors at speed, lack of an actual fuel gauge (warning light only), not nearly as much weather protection, and fewer options for hard-luggage. The Z's throttle snatchiness was hopefully cured by the ECU remap for the model (not sure about that one -- but test ride it and you can figure it out for yourself by trying to hold 35 mph in 4th).

I don't think you can go wrong with either bike, esp. at similar price-points -- just a question of which one suits your particular real-world needs better.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

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[motomech]

First off, thanks for your comments.
I guess perhaps a more visceral element is the Kawasaki's "hot rod" attitude, something they have to be able to incorporate in their machines since the first Mach III, the Z1, GPZ series, the KZ750, the ZX9R and others.
From what I've read, the fuel injection system(dual throttle plates), has been well recieved, so perhaps any "jerkiness" was ironed out after the first year.
Yes, it's clear the Z750S would need items to approch the stock comfort of the Katana, while even with performance upgrades, the Katana could never match the "point and shoot" abilities of the Kawi.
There was a time when I wouldn't give a second thought to adding a full system and jet kit to a new to me bike(or a customers), but with the price of full systems and the reduction in fuel mileage, I'm not sure that is the route I would want to take these days.
I was really never happy with the slip-on/jet kit combo, as it seemed that either the K&N stage I or Factory kits left the bike running rich with a slip-on(never had a opportunity to an Ivans kit, so maybe it would be more suitable to a slip-on).
But it does seem to me, that the Kawasaki's FI system is flexable enough to add a slip-on(or better yet, "cutting the can", a common practice of removing the last intricate baffle section of the muffler, an easy mod on the Z750's)without having to go to a Power Commander.
I don't believe this actually adds any power, just one of those "ballons in the spokes" things that most of us find irrestable. But it doesn't seem to hurt the mileage either, whereas, a jet kit on a carb'ed bike most certainly will.
As far as mileage is concerned, the FI'ed bike does seem to do about 10% better, a true 50 m.pg. bike to the Katana 600/750's 45 m.p.g.(on avg.).
When asked about "which bike", I used to say, go with the one that evokes an emotion, and for me that's the Zee.
But at 57, perhaps I'm in a bit of denial about which would be better suited to me, like resisting those bi-focals that I really need

[The CyberPoet]

First off, thanks for your comments.
I guess perhaps a more visceral element is the Kawasaki's "hot rod" attitude, something they have to be able to incorporate in their machines since the first Mach III, the Z1, GPZ series, the KZ750, the ZX9R and others.

A great thing on a sunny sunday, not always the most wonderful thing if it's drizzling for hours on end in Mildenhall [UK] in March...

If you're in Costa Rica, I wouldn't be nearly as concerned about the weather protection, because the rain is warm pretty much all year long.

What I would be concerned about instead is how good the dealer-support channel is -- if you need a part, how fast can you have it if it's not already on the shelf, and how many of that brand dealerships are in your greater area (i.e. - if one goes bust, are you stuck without a good logistics channel)? I doubt it will be an issue in San Jose, but if you're in Paso Real, it could be a deal maker/breaker.
Ditto on the build-quality and known issues -- the big service on the Katana requires some tools, and oil + oil filter, occasionally an air filter. The Z750 will need shims, oil, oil filter, coolant, and occasionally an air filter, a water pump, thermostat... There is a big advantage to the Kat in that sense (ditto the oil-air cooled bandits) -- service is mostly a matter of manual labor and not an issue of parts.

The other question is "are there bikes that would better serve you in this particular area for what you'll want to accomplish that you should be considering instead?" I would imagine that a Yamaha Tenere, Honda Transalp, BMW G650, Kawasaki KLR would all be better suited to the terrain if you venture outside the well-paved paths in Costa Rica...

From what I've read, the fuel injection system(dual throttle plates), has been well recieved, so perhaps any "jerkiness" was ironed out after the first year.

Jerkiness is almost always a factor of how much the manufacturer actually spent on memory for the ECU system & programming it, plus processor power -- the more memory space & faster the processor, the better the fuel mapping and the less jerkiness as a result. Except for some very early attempts at fuel injection (and occasionally overly restrictive pollution controls at a specific RPM, such as 4500 [a specific test point for some countries]), it almost never due to the design of the intake tract or the injectors themselves.
With the mass-advent of alcohol-laden fuels (no clue if you're seeing them as the only available fuel in your area at this point like we are in the USA), older FI bikes without O2-loop controllers, and that were mapped for pure gasoline tend to run excessively lean (because alcohols lean out the mixture very drastically). Running a power-commander or other remap system on these bikes tends to improve them dramatically, even in stock guise. If the quality of the fuel is questionable (as it is in many central-American countries), I'd specifically look for either carbs OR an FI system that has an O2 sensor -- AND either one specifically with the ability to handle the lowest octane fuel you're likely to encounter.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

______________________
CyberPoet's KR Specials
Suzuki Stratosphere - 6 Cylinders, the new Katana?
The Best Motorcycle Metal Billet Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

[motomech]

A great thing on a sunny sunday, not always the most wonderful thing if it's drizzling for hours on end in Mildenhall [UK] in March...

If you're in Costa Rica, I wouldn't be nearly as concerned about the weather protection, because the rain is warm pretty much all year long.

What I would be concerned about instead is how good the dealer-support channel is -- if you need a part, how fast can you have it if it's not already on the shelf, and how many of that brand dealerships are in your greater area (i.e. - if one goes bust, are you stuck without a good logistics channel)? I doubt it will be an issue in San Jose, but if you're in Paso Real, it could be a deal maker/breaker.
Ditto on the build-quality and known issues -- the big service on the Katana requires some tools, and oil + oil filter, occasionally an air filter. The Z750 will need shims, oil, oil filter, coolant, and occasionally an air filter, a water pump, thermostat... There is a big advantage to the Kat in that sense (ditto the oil-air cooled bandits) -- service is mostly a matter of manual labor and not an issue of parts.

The other question is "are there bikes that would better serve you in this particular area for what you'll want to accomplish that you should be considering instead?" I would imagine that a Yamaha Tenere, Honda Transalp, BMW G650, Kawasaki KLR would all be better suited to the terrain if you venture outside the well-paved paths in Costa Rica...



Jerkiness is almost always a factor of how much the manufacturer actually spent on memory for the ECU system & programming it, plus processor power -- the more memory space & faster the processor, the better the fuel mapping and the less jerkiness as a result. Except for some very early attempts at fuel injection (and occasionally overly restrictive pollution controls at a specific RPM, such as 4500 [a specific test point for some countries]), it almost never due to the design of the intake tract or the injectors themselves.
With the mass-advent of alcohol-laden fuels (no clue if you're seeing them as the only available fuel in your area at this point like we are in the USA), older FI bikes without O2-loop controllers, and that were mapped for pure gasoline tend to run excessively lean (because alcohols lean out the mixture very drastically). Running a power-commander or other remap system on these bikes tends to improve them dramatically, even in stock guise. If the quality of the fuel is questionable (as it is in many central-American countries), I'd specifically look for either carbs OR an FI system that has an O2 sensor -- AND either one specifically with the ability to handle the lowest octane fuel you're likely to encounter.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

______________________
CyberPoet's KR Specials
Suzuki Stratosphere - 6 Cylinders, the new Katana?
The Best Motorcycle Metal Billet Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

Well, it seems that you must have passed this way at some point.
I have been remiss(lazy)by not fleshing out some details.

After 7 years here, I am moving to Puerto Rico around Xmas. I am not retired and there is no work for me here at this time. I took a job as an equipment manager for a large golf resort(four courses) near San Juan.
Still Latin, but very different from Central America as far as riding a M.C. goes.

<<<<I would imagine that a Yamaha Tenere, Honda Transalp, BMW G650, Kawasaki KLR would all be better suited to the terrain if you venture outside the well-paved paths in Costa Rica...>>>

Actually, I have found the roads in Nicaugua and Pamana to be, in general, to be better than here in Costa Rica. Somewhat dissappointing, considering the high taxes levied on fuel.
I have been riding a '92 BMW R100GS the last four years(40,000 miles)and it is well suited to the conditions here(I'm in the northern part of CR).
It had 30 K on it when I got it and over the course of the next 10K, It had the usual failures associated with that model, diode board, rotor, driveshaft(I rebuilt mine, something the guys at the BMW boards say can't be done), clutch, stearing head brg.s and many seals(still leaks oil). On the other hand, at 70K, it still has the original trans, fork seals and shock(WP). The support(parts availability)of the BMW network(as well as KTM)is very good here, as they are run by Germans. The Japanese products are poorly represented, as they are run by Costa Ricans(unless the bike is in the 100cc to 200cc range). Costa Rican co.'s opperate on net 30 and net 60 accounts and keep nothing on the shelves.
I have grown very fond of the "Bumblebee" over the years, it is a motorcycle that has grown on me(so much so, that I have considered shipping it to PR), but I am also ready for something more modern and Japanese(my roots).

P.S. Before I post at a new forum, I usually read back though the archives a day or two first and I have enjoyed your posts very much. In a past life, I was a M.C. tech, 22 years.

Pura Vida

[The CyberPoet]

After 7 years here, I am moving to Puerto Rico around Xmas. I am not retired and there is no work for me here at this time. I took a job as an equipment manager for a large golf resort(four courses) near San Juan.
Still Latin, but very different from Central America as far as riding a M.C. goes.

If you're moving to PR, I'd suggest getting settled where-ever you're going and then looking there (and if you have free or reasonable-cost shipping available, send the BMW'r as well -- it's just getting broken in!). No reason in PR not to have two bikes instead of one, especially if the BMW is already long paid for and reliable -- might also make the choice of the next one more capable of being a bit more extreme (either far more power or a brand with a dealer-network further away from your location) because you have another bike to fall back on for commuting-type duties. I have no clue if the dealer channel in PR is any better than the one in Costa Rica in that sense, although I would be very surprised if it wasn't generally like the dealer channel in the USA (since the island is served under US mail).

I'd love to ask you about how you rebuild the drive-shaft... but I'm hoping you'll post it up as a webpage instead so more people will get benefit from what you have to say (I'll be happy to host the page in perpetuity).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

PS - thank you for the compliment.

______________________
CyberPoet's KR Specials
Suzuki Stratosphere - 6 Cylinders, the new Katana?
The Best Motorcycle Metal Billet Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

[motomech]

If you're moving to PR, I'd suggest getting settled where-ever you're going and then looking there (and if you have free or reasonable-cost shipping available, send the BMW'r as well -- it's just getting broken in!). No reason in PR not to have two bikes instead of one, especially if the BMW is already long paid for and reliable -- might also make the choice of the next one more capable of being a bit more extreme (either far more power or a brand with a dealer-network further away from your location) because you have another bike to fall back on for commuting-type duties. I have no clue if the dealer channel in PR is any better than the one in Costa Rica in that sense, although I would be very surprised if it wasn't generally like the dealer channel in the USA (since the island is served under US mail).

I'd love to ask you about how you rebuild the drive-shaft... but I'm hoping you'll post it up as a webpage instead so more people will get benefit from what you have to say (I'll be happy to host the page in perpetuity).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

PS - thank you for the compliment.

______________________
CyberPoet's KR Specials
Suzuki Stratosphere - 6 Cylinders, the new Katana?
The Best Motorcycle Metal Billet Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

FYI, GS Paralever drive shaft failures(from a post of mine in Adventure Riders, Old Skool forum).

<<<Having recently experienced a failure of the original at 41,000 miles, I thought I might post my observations of the nature of this failure. The most obvious thing in this instance, is the fact that the damper got twisted at the time of the failure. I know this because I had it out at 39,000 miles for inspection. At that time, there was only 1 to 2 degrees of twist. There was no grease visable, either around the U-joints or in the housing and all felt fine, so I thought I was good-to-go for a while. Upon inspection of the failed shaft, I found that there was no grease in the rear U-joint(the one that let go) and where it went remains a mystery.
I have since rebuilt it and re-installed it and although I have posted this before in existing threads, I thought I might review it briefly again.

The U-joints are readily available here and they are used in the stearing shaft of a Toyota delivery truck. Their diamensions are 19 m/m by 48 m/m and the part # is ST-1948.
Next, I burned out the old U-joints with a cutting torch. There are other ways to get them out, but this is, by far the easiest. Since the originals were sweaged in, the sweage marks need to be cleaned up. This was easily done with a stone on a diegrinder, but a Dremel tool would work as well.
Now, with the U-joints out, I straightened the shaft by securing one end in a vise and reefing it around with a long prybar. Some might be concerned about realigning a damper tweeked by 13 degrees, but I am fairly certain, that for the street rider(with some occassional fire roads), that this will not be an issue.
I repacked the new bearings and closed off the hole for the grease fitting with JB Weld, since I knew from a previous rebuild that I couldn't get a grease fitting in there anyhow(and I had tried various bends of fittings).
The U-joints were then pressed in. I used my shop press, but a decent sized vise will work.
Now they need to be secured and I simply placed washers over the ends of the brg.s and tacked them on the yokes in three places. This must be done with an electric welder as to not cook the grease out. I would dunk the work in a bucket of water between tacks to keep the heat down.
I guess this plan is contingent upon availablity of the U-joints.>>>

I'm not sure that this is worth reposting, as I believe it is too "dirtfloor" for the vast majority of BMW riders to consider. I believe there were zero responses when I posted this.

Puerto Rico is worlds better than Costa Rica as far as parts availability and support. PR is just a couple of days and a few extra $ shipping from the States.
The whole concept of "service" is virtually unknown here in CR and things like warrenties are not honnored. Everything here(services and products) is done with the least effort possible. "Buyer Beware" are watch words here.

One of the things I find interesting in you posts is you repeated perference for the 600 over the 750. You had mentioned that you perfered the riding position and to have you head/upper body in "clean air"(my words)to relieve some of the pressure off the wrists.
I am assuming that your riding conditions and style(ie; abilities to go around corners)reinforce these perferences.
As far as motors, once again I will assume, that you gardner a certain satisfaction from being in the right gear for condition and achieving "more with less".
Fair assesment?

[The CyberPoet]

One of the things I find interesting in you posts is you repeated perference for the 600 over the 750. You had mentioned that you perfered the riding position and to have you head/upper body in "clean air"(my words)to relieve some of the pressure off the wrists.
I am assuming that your riding conditions and style(ie; abilities to go around corners)reinforce these perferences.
As far as motors, once again I will assume, that you gardner a certain satisfaction from being in the right gear for condition and achieving "more with less".
Fair assesment?

I've owned both, ridden both extensively, and the 600 just sits better with me. The engine differences (in terms of power) really aren't all that noticable to me at all, mostly because of the difference in compression ratios making the span far smaller than the displacement difference would indicate it ought to be. The difference between 135 and 144 mph top-end is generally meaningless to me, because I don't tend to spend any time at those speeds on the Kats.
The steering on the 600 is far more communicative because of the triple-trees (750 has a rubber vibration damper in the set-up), and I'm a rider who can notice that difference and appreciate it; many beginning riders will never notice it, and honestly, without good tires, everyone would be hard pressed to notice the difference.
And finally, the seating position, given my height, the Corbin saddles I use, etc., is just more "right" on the 600 for me (yes, it's a bit more of a forward lean for the 600 because the 750 has taller risers, but it means I catch the air just right for my tastes).

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

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