Suzuki - late model changes, late arrivals?

[The CyberPoet]

It would appear Suzuki has been holding back on us.

This week, at the Milan Bike show, they paraded out their newly restyled Bandit 650's, which receive:
a new semi-fairing,
new headlight (both naked & semi-faired versions get different headlights);
new mirrors
new tail lights (narrower, almost reversed V shape);
new instrument panel; AND
new storage-bins in the fairings (actually in the black instrument-surround-like plastic between the fairings and the frame at the tank).

But more importantly, IMHO, is that this is a clear signal from Suzuki that they haven't finished parading out all their '09 models, which may mean that something else is still waiting in the wings (I have my fingers crossed that a Stratosphere-based 6-cylinder is still going to show up as an '09 model, especially since Suzuki is calling '09 their 100th year in business).

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

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CyberPoet's KR Specials
Suzuki Stratosphere - 6 Cylinders, the new Katana?
The Best Motorcycle Metal Billet Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

[Psycho1]

With Yamaha's new V-Max comming out, Suzuki may drop that Strato-bomb at the last minute or mid model year if the Max is selling.

[Londob5]

I'll probably live to eat my words, but I think you guys are exercising too much wishful thinking on the Stratosphere. I would love to see it too, but I think it will either:
a. Never be released.
b. Be so expensive that only the Ducati crowd can afford it.
c. Have so many mechanical and mechanical infrastructure support issues in its first year, that if you get one, you'll wish you didn't.

Just my 2 pennies.

[The CyberPoet]

With Yamaha's new V-Max comming out, Suzuki may drop that Strato-bomb at the last minute or mid model year if the Max is selling.

I'm still thinking they are holding it back until Honda drops their revamped VFR, and planning on putting it head-to-head.

I'll probably live to eat my words, but I think you guys are exercising too much wishful thinking on the Stratosphere. I would love to see it too, but I think it will either:
a. Never be released.
b. Be so expensive that only the Ducati crowd can afford it.
c. Have so many mechanical and mechanical infrastructure support issues in its first year, that if you get one, you'll wish you didn't.

(a) May be true with the change in the economy and the realities of cost of production and certification for a whole new engine type, although Suzuki did confirm in 2007 that they had green-lighted production of the bike with the 6-cylinder engine.
(b) My estimate was $14k, based on the Busa's $12.5k and the added features/cost/benefit ratio.
(c) Could well be, although Suzuki has a reputation for rarely getting fundamental stuff (engine, frame) wrong first time out with a model (other issues, such as fueling, wiring, electronics, etc. might well be a different story).

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

______________________
CyberPoet's KR Specials
Suzuki Stratosphere - 6 Cylinders, the new Katana?
The Best Motorcycle Metal Billet Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

[squiggy]

I saw that revamped Bandit as well a while back. But since I had no intrest in it, I didn't post anything.

But that KTM 990 Adventure...ahhh, me likey.

[eviilil0ne]

[steves]

The in fairing storage thing is neat. The new sprint has that as well... a little compartment on the right side of the bike.

[Psycho1]

(b) My estimate was $14k, based on the Busa's $12.5k and the added features/cost/benefit ratio.

If they can put it on the market for right around $14k with that 6 cylinder engine in it, they should be able to sell it. Still cheaper than the $17k+ for the new V-Max, although the Max already has the fanatical fan base that's been foaming at the mouth for the last 15 years or more waiting for a redesign. (If I could afford the new Max, I'd buy one in a heartbeat lol)

[The CyberPoet]

If they can put it on the market for right around $14k with that 6 cylinder engine in it, they should be able to sell it. Still cheaper than the $17k+ for the new V-Max, although the Max already has the fanatical fan base that's been foaming at the mouth for the last 15 years or more waiting for a redesign. (If I could afford the new Max, I'd buy one in a heartbeat lol)

I just don't see it as a competitor to the (intentionally over-priced, limited-availability) VMax in any sense; I see it as a potential competitor to the VFR though. The VMax is a point-to-point missile with no real long-range capabilities from my point of view -- I wouldn't want to eat 1000 miles on it in a day; I can see the Stratosphere in that role, which (with OEM-optional hard-bags) would put it head-to-head with the VFR in many senses.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

______________________
CyberPoet's KR Specials
Suzuki Stratosphere - 6 Cylinders, the new Katana?
The Best Motorcycle Metal Billet Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

[StevieB]

The in fairing storage thing is neat. The new sprint has that as well... a little compartment on the right side of the bike.

Yeah, that's a brand-new feature... just like on the 1996 Kawasaki ZX-6E.

[GSXF]

Here's the pic I found:



And a unfaired version

[monger]

Looks like a mini v-strom and a mini b(urger)-king

[freight dog]

I just don't see it as a competitor to the (intentionally over-priced, limited-availability) VMax in any sense; I see it as a potential competitor to the VFR though. The VMax is a point-to-point missile with no real long-range capabilities from my point of view -- I wouldn't want to eat 1000 miles on it in a day; I can see the Stratosphere in that role, which (with OEM-optional hard-bags) would put it head-to-head with the VFR in many senses.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

______________________
CyberPoet's KR Specials
Suzuki Stratosphere - 6 Cylinders, the new Katana?
The Best Motorcycle Metal Billet Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

Hey Marc,

I don't pretend any knowledge of these things. What is the advantage of the I6 over a V4? From what I've seen, I think I would rather have a Viffer.

[The CyberPoet]

Hey Marc,

I don't pretend any knowledge of these things. What is the advantage of the I6 over a V4? From what I've seen, I think I would rather have a Viffer.

I'm going to answer this in two different ways -- first in general, then again in specific to theoretical Strat vs. theoretical VFR (both rumored):

The general comparison of engine technology advantages:

The biggest advantage of a inline-six is both perfect primary and secondary harmony being readily achievable without the need for counter-balancers, making the engine turbine-like smooth at all RPM's. Like an inline-four, a V-4 normally has perfect primary balance, but not perfect secondary balance (this is also why modern GoldWings use a six-cylinder engine)

The second advantage is a heat advantage -- transversely mounted engine with the headers only exiting the front of the engine, you have the same general temp across the entire engine, instead of having the rear cylinders running hot compared to the front. This temperature stabilization (for lack of a better term) also means that fueling can generally be consistent for all cylinders instead of having to map individual cylinders differently as temps change (simpler design).

The third advantage is a packaging advantage (or more accurately, disadvantage in the case of the V-4) -- a V-4 has to put the entire intake fueling system between the cylinders; this traditionally eats very heavily into the gas tank space or requires the gas tank to be moved up for clearance (or relocated totally to somewhere else). By comparison, any transverse-mounted 2/3/4/6 cylinder engine can stick the airbox and fueling behind the engine, keeping the fuel above it if desired.

The final advantage is ease of syncing the throttle bodies & valve adjustments (ease of service). The odd timing interval on a Honda V-4 engine means that a throttle-body sync must be done in a non-standard way (one cylinder needs about 50% of the vacuum of the others due to the long pause before it fires); the shape of the V-4 engine generally requires draining the coolant, removing radiators, oil cooler(s), and both cams (and that's the non-VTec version; the VTec is even more complicated). By comparison, an inline-6 would be simple even-vacuum on the throttle body sync, and access to the valves would be like it is on the Kat.

The major disadvantage is width -- a two-cylinder wide engine is always far narrower than a 6-cylinder wide engine, even if the 6-cylinder are staggered in a W-style.

Now, comparing the Strat (spec based on rumor & Suzuki-provided info) vs. the VFR1K (spec based on rumor & Honda-provided leaks):

If the rumors all hold true, the Stratosphere ought to have somewhere between 101cc and 152cc displacement advantage, with each detonation coming on smaller (because each cylinder is somewhere between 66cc and 58cc smaller than the VFR's) and more often (6 cylinders firing instead of four). In real world terms, this means that there is far more torque coming out of the Strat at any RPM, but especially at the lower RPM's (i.e. - below 8k or so), plus the smaller torque-events should be less apt to tear tires loose (but just as or more apt to eat chains & tires).

On the other hand, the VFR should have the handling advantage, because the width of a V-4 is far narrower than the width a Busa engine (and the Strat's engine is somewhere between 1/4" and 1/2" narrower than the Busa's engine, at least in the prototype form they rode on the test-track). As long as Honda doesn't widen the 1k VFR out too much with side-mounted radiators (and the liquid-weight carried in them), the VFR wins this point.

For all-day comfort, the inherent smoothness of a six-cylinder would be more desirable, but would also have less "personality" (an industry-review term) than the V-4 because the six-cylinder would have less of a sensation of change of "umph" as the RPM's changed, being far more linear from a powerful base thru it's top end.

My guess is that most who might make this choice between the two will be evaluating all sorts of creature comforts and secondary issues anyway -- which one feels more right under you, which one has better headlights, which one has better luggage? These are all issues which you really can't tell until they get trotted out...

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

______________________
CyberPoet's KR Specials
Suzuki Stratosphere - 6 Cylinders, the new Katana?
The Best Motorcycle Metal Billet Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.