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More Honda-ness: R&D showing off

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  • More Honda-ness: R&D showing off

    Apparently the fact that Honda sells over 13 million motorcycles globally each year means they have big research bucks. Aside from the Brake-by-Wire system (separate KR Thread), they have also been trotting out additional R&D projects to the press that I figured my KR brothers might like to know about...

    One of the more interesting ones was a cylinder activation/deactivation system they're calling Hyper-VTEC that takes a traditional four cylinder and rather than shutting down cylinders on demand, actually starts with cylinders shut down and wakes up cylinders on demand. In the rideable example they let the journo's ride, they took a blackbird (transverse inline 4 cylinder) and equipped it with Hyper-VTEC. Under the system, the engine actually starts up on just two cylinders and uses just those two for low-speed maneuvering, then as you accelerate harder, brings in a third cylinder (30 - 75% of the RPM band), and only for massive hyper-speed maneuvers (top 25% of the RPM band) actually fires up the fourth cylinder.

    Although the system provides extreme fuel savings in a logic manner, the press who were at the event panned it badly, saying that at idle, the beast sounded like an inline four with two cylinders misfiring, and initial acceleration was such that it set some of the rider's teeth on edge, since the bangs were spread so far apart and so harsh (without all four cylinders firing, balance & smoothness is simply gone); with three cylinders firing it felt like a four banger with one miss-firing cylinder.

    When asked, Hayato Maehara from Honda's design development said that this was the only way to hit their target of a 30% fuel-consumption reduction (as verses to Cadillac and Chrysler's previous methods for shutting down cylinders at steady-state cruise but firing on all cylinders at start up).

    _______________

    On a separate note, honda also said it was creating a whole new motorcycle niche, promising "to develop another model which creates a new motorcycle category and market as did the Super Cub," adding that R&D will "be strengthened with a determination and passion to create the Super Cub of the next generation."

    Although the Honda Super Cub (a 50cc step-through two-wheeler) was the single most successful design on the planet for anything in the two-wheel motoring realms (with 60 million built & sold globally), I still have no clue what their statement really means in English

    Cheers,
    =-= The CyberPoet
    Remember The CyberPoet

  • #2
    I don't particularly like Suzuki's miller-cycle idea that you discussed elsewhere....... but I like it a whole lot more than I like this!

    On a side note....... Why is Honda doing current R&D stuff on a Blackbird? Why wouldn't they use something current?
    Any and all statements by Loudnlow7484 are merely his own opinions, and not necessarily the opinion of Katriders.com. Anything suggested by him is to be followed at your own risk, and may result in serious injury or death. Responses from this member have previously been attributed to all of the following: depression, insomnia, nausea, suicidal tendencies, and panic. Please consult a mental health professional before reading any post by Loudnlow7484.

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    • #3
      You have to realize that although the blackbird (CBR11XX) was dropped from the US line-up by the 2004 model year (effectively dying in 2003 officially, but even before that in reality here in the US), the bike still continued to be sold as a new model in much of the world (you could buy an new '08 model in the UK, although it was relatively unchanged since '01 from what I gather except for color schemes).

      The US shunned the Blackbird in favor of the faster Hayabusa and ZX-12 once they debuted; in Europe, the blackbird continued to be sold for what it really is, a very fast comfortable sport-tourer for the discriminating gentleman who doesn't need to have the biggest/fastest thing available (and didn't want the bulk of the Busa/ZX-12/ZX-14).

      Additionally, cutting edge R&D that's at the engine- or tranny-level and is actually handed to the press to test-ride is often done on bikes that are in the end-of-lifecycle stages, so no new bike information can be gleaned from it to leak out to the competition (imagine hypothetically that the design is actually going to be used for a five-cylinder 1180 cc 2010-model year VFR -- they don't leak anything about the VFR at all by showing the system on a Blackbird).

      Cheers,
      =-= The CyberPoet

      ______________________
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      • #4
        Gotcha.......... It's a shame the XX got pulled from here. I only rode my boss' blackbird a couple times, but it was really impressive. Had more power than I cared to be responsible for, and was SO unbelievably smooth in every way. I thought it was quite a hefer, but I'm sure out on the open highway it's a dream.
        Any and all statements by Loudnlow7484 are merely his own opinions, and not necessarily the opinion of Katriders.com. Anything suggested by him is to be followed at your own risk, and may result in serious injury or death. Responses from this member have previously been attributed to all of the following: depression, insomnia, nausea, suicidal tendencies, and panic. Please consult a mental health professional before reading any post by Loudnlow7484.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by The CyberPoet View Post
          ...since the bangs were spread so far apart and so harsh (without all four cylinders firing, balance & smoothness is simply gone); with three cylinders firing it felt like a four banger with one miss-firing cylinder.

          Cheers,
          =-= The CyberPoet
          Was it cutting off spark, fuel to make as such?


          Are the machanical valves still functioning even though no combustion is occuring in those cyclinders? Meaning are the two cylinders forcing a dead cylinder to compress air, yet the dead cylinder is not creating a power stroke so that it creates drag on the rest of the engine?

          At least if the valves were to be open, then there would less drag on the engine. Yes, no?






          Did anyone see that huge Harley Davidson advertizing pullout in both Rider and either Cyle World or Road Runner?

          The new redesigned Road King has a way of turning off the rear cyclinder in "parades" or heavy traffic.

          I thought it was funny they actually printed "parades".

          It showed a thermal image of the engine while firing on two cylinders and one on just the front cylinder.
          Last edited by squiggy; 08-22-2008, 08:25 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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          • #6
            CBR11XX the bike still continued to be sold as a new model in much of the world (you could buy an new '08 model in the UK)
            I wonder would it be possible to ask the dealer to import one to US then if customer request?
            sigpic

            "You can make more friends in two months by becoming interested in other people than you can in two years by trying to get other people interested in you."



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            • #7
              Originally posted by squiggy View Post
              Was it cutting off spark, fuel to make as such?

              Are the machanical valves still functioning even though no combustion is occuring in those cyclinders? Meaning are the two cylinders forcing a dead cylinder to compress air, yet the dead cylinder is not creating a power stroke so that it creates drag on the rest of the engine?
              I would expect it was locking the exhaust valves open and the intake valves shut (or visa-versa, to minimize compression-losses while still preventing exhaust waves from pushing back into the airbox), shutting down fuel and probably leaving spark alone (no reason not to spark - makes no difference, and could help burn unburnt or partially burn fuel from the other cylinders flowing back via the open exhaust valves.


              Originally posted by squiggy View Post
              At least if the valves were to be open, then there would less drag on the engine. Yes, no?
              Yes, a lot less. And the reason I expect it had one pair of valves locked open and the other shut.

              Originally posted by squiggy View Post
              Did anyone see that huge Harley Davidson advertizing pullout in both Rider and either Cyle World or Road Runner?

              The new redesigned Road King has a way of turning off the rear cyclinder in "parades" or heavy traffic.
              No, I didn't see it. Makes me wonder if they are doing anything with the valves, or simply killing the fuel supply though.

              Cheers,
              =-= The CyberPoet

              ______________________
              CyberPoet's KR Specials
              SuzukiStratosphere.com - 6 Cylinders, wet dreams...
              The Best Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.
              Remember The CyberPoet

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              • #8
                One thing I have to say about Honda, when they do something, they do it right. I am really wanting to see the new VFR, it is on the shortlist to replace the kat when the kat rolls over 50k.

                With all of the tech research they are working on I wonder why they still use carbs on their cruisers.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Alley_Kat View Post
                  With all of the tech research they are working on I wonder why they still use carbs on their cruisers.
                  Cheap, easy.
                  But don't worry, they said in the road-map for the future briefing, by 2010 ever bike they sell over 200cc will use their PMG-FI.

                  Cheers,
                  =-= The CyberPoet

                  ______________________
                  CyberPoet's KR Specials
                  SuzukiStratosphere.com - 6 Cylinders, wet dreams...
                  The Best Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.
                  Remember The CyberPoet

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