[Kreylyn]

Sure, it's on a 2002 bike, if you look in the Haynes manual in the Fuel and Exhaust bit on page 3.3 there's a picture of the hose I'm talking about in the top left of the page.

I've a pump I can use from a brake bleed kit but not sure how much of a vacuum should be there to let the fuel flow and obviously don't want to overdo it and wreck the tap, assuming my manometer was accurate when balancing carbs this was about 21cmHg, does that sound about right? Vacuum hose from carb 4 is clear.

Edit: ok so I tested the fuel tap and 'on' and 'res' let nothing out when there's a vacuum applied. It also doesn't let anything out on 'pri'. I now though have an extra problem in that I hooked up an auxiliary tank again, blocked off the vacuum tube and when I turned the tap on it let about 300ml of fuel into the carbs, now when I did this for balancing it let about 200 in, any thoughts why that might be? How much fuel should the carbs hold in the bowls? Also it now won't start, thoughts are possibly the float heights are wrong but then I'd have expected the same behaviour when I got it running to sync the carbs.

I don't have that specific manual to refer to the pic of. You could take/post a pic.

I'm aware of 3 possible hoses on the bottom of kat tanks. CA models have an extra port that is used by the PAIR system to pull fumes from the inside of the tank through a device located in the tank. That's the closest to a "breather" line I could think of, but wasn't aware the did that outside of the US.

The other 2 are standard drain lines. One off the fuel sensor catch pan, and one for the port up top at the lid area to drain spills or water that gets in around the cap area. Nothing "breather" bout those.

imgur.com can host pics. Just post the link. would love to know more about that line.

As for the fuel... I think the focus of how much specifically went in is distracting, don't over think it. If you have questions about the carb setup, pull them off and check it. You can test they aren't leaking on the desktop (put in catch pan, hook up a gravity fed fuel source, wait to see if any comes out).

Once your sure of the carbs are properly in working order, put them back on and proceed.

Krey

[Seft]

I don't have that specific manual to refer to the pic of. You could take/post a pic.

I'll hunt down a link or post a pic, things have moved on a little since my last post
I had a chat with a local bike mechanic, he reckoned give a quick squirt of brake cleaner into each carb to try to start it, so if it does start it's likely the pilot jet is bunged up a tad. So I took the air box off and the drain hose at the base was full of fuel. Cleared that out and set it to one side.
Relying solely on the fuel left in the bowls, I then squirted a splash of brake fluid into each carb and tried to start it and start it did. I then briefly put my hand over each carb to create a bigger vacuum to suck through and soft crap (read this in a few places and mechanic guy said to give it a go) this seemed to do the trick and after killing the engine it happily started quick as anything once more.

So, wanting to investigate the fuel in the air box I attached an aux tank and let it fill up the bowls, this time when I tried to start it fuel spat out of carb 1, presumably from the holes at the bottom but also looked like from around the T connector between 1 & 2, after clearing up the leaked fule went to start again without a tank and fired up nicely. Does suggest there might be a stuck needle valve letting too much fuel into that carb perhaps?

I'm going to go get more fuel and test this again to more clearly see where the fuel comes from but can anyone give me a steer as to what might be causing this to happen please?

[Kreylyn]

I'll hunt down a link or post a pic, things have moved on a little since my last post
I had a chat with a local bike mechanic, he reckoned give a quick squirt of brake cleaner into each carb to try to start it, so if it does start it's likely the pilot jet is bunged up a tad. So I took the air box off and the drain hose at the base was full of fuel. Cleared that out and set it to one side.
Relying solely on the fuel left in the bowls, I then squirted a splash of brake fluid into each carb and tried to start it and start it did. I then briefly put my hand over each carb to create a bigger vacuum to suck through and soft crap (read this in a few places and mechanic guy said to give it a go) this seemed to do the trick and after killing the engine it happily started quick as anything once more.

So, wanting to investigate the fuel in the air box I attached an aux tank and let it fill up the bowls, this time when I tried to start it fuel spat out of carb 1, presumably from the holes at the bottom but also looked like from around the T connector between 1 & 2, after clearing up the leaked fule went to start again without a tank and fired up nicely. Does suggest there might be a stuck needle valve letting too much fuel into that carb perhaps?

I'm going to go get more fuel and test this again to more clearly see where the fuel comes from but can anyone give me a steer as to what might be causing this to happen please?

Your on the right path. Float needle is not sealing, probably on body one as you mentioned. Pull the carbs, clean the float needle seat, verify the float height (If a 98+ model make sure your not compressing the spring on the needle when you do or it will be way off!), and make sure you check the float needle tip is not worn/damaged. Check the tip really close, a magnifying glass may be useful here as sometimes it can be hard to see wear on the tiny tip. If you can see a ring around the tip, ti's probably worn.


Krey

[katanarider]

Bad/stuck needles or incorrect float height will cause fuel to over flow.
Other tips: After installing the carbs I like to keep my air filters off to make sure the diaphragms are working/lifting when you twist the throttle.
They should all raise and lower at the same rate. Also, you'll want to squirt starting fluid-carb cleaner-brake cleaner around your gaskets to make sure you don't have a vacuum leak.

[Seft]

Your on the right path. Float needle is not sealing, probably on body one as you mentioned. Pull the carbs, clean the float needle seat, verify the float height (If a 98+ model make sure your not compressing the spring on the needle when you do or it will be way off!), and make sure you check the float needle tip is not worn/damaged. Check the tip really close, a magnifying glass may be useful here as sometimes it can be hard to see wear on the tiny tip. If you can see a ring around the tip, ti's probably worn.
Krey

Thanks, think I've resigned myself to more carb dismantling though now I know what's what it's not such a daunting task. I'll still do the test again to see if fuel does leak from the T piece too though as if I can avoid splitting them and buying a whole host more bit of massively overpriced rubber then I will! The needle valves and seats were new so they wont be worn so I'm suspecting either somethings lodged in it, I don't suspect the float height as it would have to be way out to let that much extra fuel in, though I'll check again anyway. I measured the heights with the carbs tilted so the springs touched but no compressed and tool the measurment from the centre of the side of the gasket surface to the top of the float.

Incidentally the breather hose I mentioned is in the manual linked from Katriders at https://www.dropbox.com/s/lbbtw4khjy...anual.pdf?dl=0 page 3Ž·4 top left, though clearly this has nothing to do with my problems here especially now it's cleaned out.

you'll want to squirt starting fluid-carb cleaner-brake cleaner around your gaskets to make sure you don't have a vacuum leak.

Clearly I'm having a thick day, how will this highlight a vaccum leak?

[Kreylyn]

Clearly I'm having a thick day, how will this highlight a vaccum leak?

Any liquid will reduce the air flow. Flammable liquid will get sucked into the leak area and increase the combustibility of the a/f mix if the leak point is drawn into the cylinders.

So when you squirt a spot, if the RPMS of the bike idle change... it's a leak point. The RPM may go up or down depending on the fluid used, and the location of the leak.

I'd agree it's a good simple test/check to do, and you would want to do it one spot at a time anywhere plastic / rubber / metal meet. The engine side of the engine boots is a problem area, the carb caps, the vacuum ports and misc rubber/hoses that hook to them, around the petcock, intake books on the air box both box side and carb side, and so on....

OTE=Seft;2378906]Incidentally the breather hose I mentioned is in the manual linked from Katriders at https://www.dropbox.com/s/lbbtw4khjy...anual.pdf?dl=0 page 3Ž·4 top left, though clearly this has nothing to do with my problems here especially now it's cleaned out.[/QUOTE]

I honestly can't think of a valid reason the manual would call that a "breather" hose. It's pretty clearly a drain from the top side of the cap area. The tube that runs through the tank for the drain does not open to inside the tank at all, or that would allow for water and other contaminates to just run into the tank. As a matter of fact, a rusted out tube is a problem the has happened, and will cause major running issues if it did open into the tank.

I took some pics to clearly demonstrate what I'm talking about, cause... never just take the word from some internet guy right? lol.



Matching tank just... rusty and dirty. Lol.



Run a wire into the drain port.



A clear view of the wire running all the way through the tank.



Where it comes out around the fill area.



How the hole looks when a cap is in place. You can see it's not covered. Upper left corner in the pic.

You can also clearly see the raise lip area of the fill port. So the drain hole is where the water that gets in around the cap ring or if you over fill /spill fuel when filling the tank will drain out to the bottom of the bike.




I think that may be a simple aspect of the manual writer wasn't the mechanic, or the mechanic didn't think it through when labeling the part/pic.

Krey

[Seft]

Your on the right path. Float needle is not sealing, probably on body one as you mentioned. Pull the carbs, clean the float needle seat, verify the float height (If a 98+ model make sure your not compressing the spring on the needle when you do or it will be way off!), and make sure you check the float needle tip is not worn/damaged. Check the tip really close, a magnifying glass may be useful here as sometimes it can be hard to see wear on the tiny tip. If you can see a ring around the tip, ti's probably worn.


Krey

So the float needle looked fine, cleaned everything up including the jets for good measure, checked the float height which was a little high but foolishly forgot to check it before I took everything to bits to confirm if it'd be a problem. Will test again later this morning. Presumably if it does the same thing again I need to get another new needle + seat?

With testing for vacuum leaks as you and katanarider suggest and I find one say between the carbs and engine, what are my options for sorting it out, is there a non permanent sealant I could use for example?

Thank for the info re what I can clearly now see is a drain pipe!!

[katanarider]

With testing for vacuum leaks as you and katanarider suggest and I find one say between the carbs and engine, what are my options for sorting it out, is there a non permanent sealant I could use for example?

I'm currently having trouble getting mine to seal between the head and the intake boot. Everyone has opinions when it comes to this. According to Suzuki, just break it back down and try again. I've done that already a few times and still no luck. I'm sure some other guy may have a alternative homemade solution. The best thing I can suggest at this point is to quickly pull the carbs while the engine and o-rings are warm to re-tighten the intake screws. This way the rubber o-rings are soft and will smush a little more to help the seal. I was able to get about one addition turn on my screws when I tried this, but I still have leaks.
EDIT: Harley Davidson recommends this stuff:
Eldelbrock Gasgacinch...But I believe it may harden with time (according to the internet, although Eldelbrock claims it will not).

http://www.jegs.com/p/Edelbrock/Edel...43641/10002/-1

[Kreylyn]

New o-rings on the boots.

Prep the surface with 120-240 grit wet work sand paper with a known hard flat surface contact. A small piece of mirror/glass or a known flat piece of steel. Using that on the mounting surfaces will quickly show you if you have some spots that are not flat. If a little sanding won't make them smooth and clean, you know why you're having issues.

I use 400 grit on the carb caps to remove any casting irigularities.

I use gasket sealer on the air box side boots.

Over torqued clamps on the boots either side of the carbs will cause leak issues. So will bent clamps.

Krey

[Seft]

I'm currently having trouble getting mine to seal between the head and the intake boot. Everyone has opinions when it comes to this. According to Suzuki, just break it back down and try again. I've done that already a few times and still no luck. I'm sure some other guy may have a alternative homemade solution. The best thing I can suggest at this point is to quickly pull the carbs while the engine and o-rings are warm to re-tighten the intake screws. This way the rubber o-rings are soft and will smush a little more to help the seal. I was able to get about one addition turn on my screws when I tried this, but I still have leaks.
EDIT: Harley Davidson recommends this stuff:
Eldelbrock Gasgacinch...But I believe it may harden with time (according to the internet, although Eldelbrock claims it will not).

http://www.jegs.com/p/Edelbrock/Edel...43641/10002/-1

Thanks, doesn't look like I'll need anything extra though, after tearing down carb 1 that was spitting fuel on start the float height was wrong, a little over 1mm from spec, adjusted it cleaned jets and rebuilt that carb, started fine and balanced fine, idle is pretty smooth too. So, onto the petcock, just need to find where I can get the sort of oblong o ring from in U.K. as manual says it's a must to replace if you take it off along with a couple of other seals or washers. What's the best thing to clean it up with, more carb cleaner? Hoping it's cleanable as a new on is another 45 quid or so and I've spent enough to get this far!

So so close to having it on the road, just hope it actually starts when I finally come to test the cleaned up fuel tap, as opposed to having to take carbs to bits again. I think my next bike will have injectors instead, gotta be less hassle!!

[Seft]

New o-rings on the boots.

Prep the surface with 120-240 grit wet work sand paper with a known hard flat surface contact. A small piece of mirror/glass or a known flat piece of steel. Using that on the mounting surfaces will quickly show you if you have some spots that are not flat. If a little sanding won't make them smooth and clean, you know why you're having issues.

I use 400 grit on the carb caps to remove any casting irigularities.

I use gasket sealer on the air box side boots.

Over torqued clamps on the boots either side of the carbs will cause leak issues. So will bent clamps.

Krey

I looked over the surfaces of the casting and while not 100% perfect there weren't any significant defects. Also sprayed brake cleaner around the connections as you guys have suggested but made no change so presuming vacuum wise I'm all good.

Couldn't find any torque setting for the clamps so did them up tight how they were before I took them off, hopefully that's be ok in the long run. There's a lot of things where it'd really help to have torque settings, like the emulsion tube and jets etc especially with them being brass, seems odd it's not something that's given.

I've seen various petcock rebuild kits for replacing the diaphram, are these even worth looking at if there is an issue with it or is a new tap the way to go??

[Kreylyn]

I looked over the surfaces of the casting and while not 100% perfect there weren't any significant defects. Also sprayed brake cleaner around the connections as you guys have suggested but made no change so presuming vacuum wise I'm all good.

Couldn't find any torque setting for the clamps so did them up tight how they were before I took them off, hopefully that's be ok in the long run. There's a lot of things where it'd really help to have torque settings, like the emulsion tube and jets etc especially with them being brass, seems odd it's not something that's given.

I've seen various petcock rebuild kits for replacing the diaphram, are these even worth looking at if there is an issue with it or is a new tap the way to go??

I prefer to rebuild them.

I posted a full walkthru with pics on how to rebuild the petcock.

Krey

[shpielers]

I prefer to rebuild them.

I posted a full walkthru with pics on how to rebuild the petcock.

Krey

I've used it - it's a great write up.

[Seft]

I prefer to rebuild them.

I posted a full walkthru with pics on how to rebuild the petcock.

Krey

Thanks, apologies for not actually bothering to look for posts on this first! I found the post you mentioned but none of the pictures show up, any chance you could check the post and see they come up for you please?
http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96553

I've ordered new o-ring seal and sealing washers for the screws (look like the metal/rubber combo ones like on the top of the pulse gen cover) so I'll see if I can clean it up first, if it's just completely knackered I'll get a rebuild kit too.

[Kreylyn]

Thanks, apologies for not actually bothering to look for posts on this first! I found the post you mentioned but none of the pictures show up, any chance you could check the post and see they come up for you please?
http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96553

I've ordered new o-ring seal and sealing washers for the screws (look like the metal/rubber combo ones like on the top of the pulse gen cover) so I'll see if I can clean it up first, if it's just completely knackered I'll get a rebuild kit too.

Images hosted on imgur.com. Working for me as intended.

Krey