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Brup the oil cooler?

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  • #1

    Brup the oil cooler?

    What started as a few simple projects over the winter of course got out of hand. well, might as well do this and that while im at it,,,,,,,, anywho, as part of *MY* first oil change on the Kat (no clue what the PO had in there) i pulled and drained the oil cooler. I today picked up my signal generator cover gasket and got that on (see #1 below), so i dumped in 4 quarts (so far) of Amsoil 10-40 skooter oil. The cooler is installed, but dry (i assume) untill the Kat gets started (prolly a week away).

    My question is this : should i just let the oil pump fill the cooler and trust that it will push out the air? Pull a top line and fill the cooler up with oil on the come before she runs? And either way, should i need to try to burp any trapped air if possible out of the oil cooler after it's run a bit? I of course will be keeping a close eye on the oil level the first few runs as things fill and settle.

    btw, two lessons i've learned over the years workin on skooters, reinforced this spring.

    #1 the chances that a gasket or seal will rip, tear, or be unusable are inversely proportional to the avilability of said gasket or seal at the dealer.

    #2 the chances of dropping a part, piece, nut or bolt is proportional to the importance of said part, nut or bolt.

    axium addemdum to #2 : said part, nut or bolt will find the best hiding place possible after taking at least 3 bounces (usually in plain sight). if there is an open container of used oil anywhere within 30 yards, the part, nut, or bolt will wind up in said oil.

    one more thought : if something goes really smooth and easy, it is more than likely missing a piece, installed backwards, or you've missed an important step or procedure somewhere along the way.

    Mr Murphy is alive and well, and loves to visit me.
    99% of the questions asked here can be answered by a 2 minute search in the service manual. Get a service manual, USE IT.
    1990 Suzuki GSX750F Katana
    '53 Ford F250 pickumuptruck
    Lookin for a new Enduro project
    Tags: None
  • #2
    (A) No need to burp the oil cooler -- just make sure you recheck your oil level after running for a minute or two and top off again.

    (B) I've never had a signal cover gasket rip on me UNLESS the previous owner screwed with it by either NEVER DOING A VALVE ADJUSTMENT or by SMEARING THE STOCK ONE DOWN WITH SOME SORT OF RTV/SEALANT/ADHESIVE. When installing the new one, do not coat it with anything -- just use it dry.

    Cheers,
    =-= The CyberPoet
    Remember The CyberPoet

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    • #3
      You can fill the oil cooler if you feel better about it, But the oil pump is going to do it as well. No need to burp the cooler or lines, theres enough oil pressure there to do that just fine on its own.

      Crank the motor with the plug wires off till you see the oil light go out while its spinning, when it does, the coolers filled. Let it set a minute or two and then check the oil level. You will be low.
      Last edited by Newbie2it; 05-09-2008, 12:26 AM. Reason: Bad Grandma
      If its not broke, Hit it with a bigger hammer and blame it on cheap imports

      RIP Dad 3/15/08 Love and miss ya already




      Originally posted by Nero
      Even I played for a minute or so, then I recovered what little manhood I had left and stopped.

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      • #4
        [quote=The CyberPoet;1463904(B) I've never had a signal cover gasket rip on me UNLESS the previous owner screwed with it by either NEVER DOING A VALVE ADJUSTMENT or by SMEARING THE STOCK ONE DOWN WITH SOME SORT OF RTV/SEALANT/ADHESIVE. When installing the new one, do not coat it with anything -- just use it dry.

        Cheers,
        =-= The CyberPoet[/quote]

        the PO had it glued on, both sides. what a freakin mess. No, i didnt use any sealer on the new one. btw, he also managed to find an oil filter smaller in diamiter than the stock suzuki ones you sold me, so of course the filter wrench didnt fit. par for the course.

        thanks for the answers, i was hoping the oil pump would do a good job without extra help.
        99% of the questions asked here can be answered by a 2 minute search in the service manual. Get a service manual, USE IT.
        1990 Suzuki GSX750F Katana
        '53 Ford F250 pickumuptruck
        Lookin for a new Enduro project

        Comment

        • #5
          Works the same as an automotive engine, the oil pumps are positive displacement pumps. The oil has no choice but to circulate.
          sigpic'06 750Kat, SCORPIO alarm, integrated turn sigs into smoked LED tail light, gun metal frt turn sigs & windshield, shovel MIA, AMSOIL throughout, TARGA tank cover, PIIA 130Db Sport Horns. 16-45 sprocket set-up

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          • #6
            Originally posted by DumbLuck View Post
            [COLOR=#0000ff]...so of course the filter wrench didnt fit.
            Strap wrench or chain wrench are my standard suggestions, if you have either of them in your toolbox. You might already have a chain wrench if you've done any serious plumbing at some point

            Channel locks are my next suggestion.

            Why not the screw-driver-through-the-filter trick?
            It's ok, but you have to understand the center thread shaft that the oil filter spins onto goes about 75% - 80% the length of the filter... And if it's a cheap filter, it might just can-opener...

            Cheers,
            =-= The CyberPoet
            Remember The CyberPoet

            Comment

            • #7
              I personally would fill it so your top end doesn't starve for oil while it fills up. Just a little precaution I take for the longevity of the motor.

              Comment

              • #8
                Top end won't starve -- it's a two-path oil system (i.e. - two outputs from the pump), with one path feeding the top end & pistons, and the other path feeding the oil filter & cooler.

                Cheers,
                =-= The CyberPoet
                Remember The CyberPoet

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by elkat View Post
                  I personally would fill it so your top end doesn't starve for oil while it fills up. Just a little precaution I take for the longevity of the motor.
                  WOW, that's a really great idea!! Except, other than oiling the front of your engine and coating your headers with brand new oil, it wouldn't accomplish much since the filter is mounted horizontally.
                  sigpic'06 750Kat, SCORPIO alarm, integrated turn sigs into smoked LED tail light, gun metal frt turn sigs & windshield, shovel MIA, AMSOIL throughout, TARGA tank cover, PIIA 130Db Sport Horns. 16-45 sprocket set-up

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by baddkat View Post
                    WOW, that's a really great idea!! Except, other than oiling the front of your engine and coating your headers with brand new oil, it wouldn't accomplish much since the filter is mounted horizontally.
                    He was talking about the cooler, not the filter...

                    But I guess he's not familiar with how suzuki's SACS works...

                    Cheers,
                    =-= The CyberPoet
                    Remember The CyberPoet

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The CyberPoet View Post
                      He was talking about the cooler, not the filter...

                      But I guess he's not familiar with how suzuki's SACS works...
                      Does the system have a residual pressure valve? I thought it was only presurized by resistance to flow and controlled by the regulator. Am I missing something? I'm looking right at the engine lube system diagram and I'm not seeing any advantage of filling the oil cooler, or is that the point you are making by referring to the SACS?
                      Last edited by baddkat; 05-10-2008, 03:07 AM.
                      sigpic'06 750Kat, SCORPIO alarm, integrated turn sigs into smoked LED tail light, gun metal frt turn sigs & windshield, shovel MIA, AMSOIL throughout, TARGA tank cover, PIIA 130Db Sport Horns. 16-45 sprocket set-up

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        The cooler itself fills and empties from the top, so it won't drain when the engine shuts off.

                        Page 3G-8 of the Suzuki Factory Manual for the 98+ has a good detailed breakout of how the oiling system feeds everything, but I suspect it's technically wrong to a degree based on certain other diagrams I have seen.

                        We have two main oil storage areas: the sump (which is the oil you change) and the main gallery (which holds pressurized oil). The oil pressure switch that lights up the dummy light in the dash measures the gallery pressure.

                        The feed system works like this:
                        Oil from the sump gets sucked up by the oil pump, which pushes it into two pathways. One pathway directs it to a combination pressure regulator (pressure gets too high, the regulator kicks the excess back into the sump) and pressure relief valve (which causes some of the oil to by-pass the cooler and go straight to the oil filter). The other pathway pushes oil straight into the cooler, where once it clears the cooler, it goes to the oil filter.
                        The oil filter's output pumps into the main gallery, which in turn feeds everything else (both the high pressure, low-volume stuff like the piston wrist pin jets, and the low-pressure, high-volume stuff like the crankshaft journals).

                        On second thought, if the diagram I mentioned above is right, prefilling the cooler [after manually draining it] would be a good idea...

                        Cheers,
                        =-= The CyberPoet
                        Last edited by The CyberPoet; 05-10-2008, 03:17 AM.
                        Remember The CyberPoet

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The CyberPoet View Post
                          The cooler itself fills and empties from the top, so it won't drain when the engine shuts off.
                          Exactly!! while the engine is off, the cooler can not drain!! So, after an oil change, it is still full, full of old contaminated oil unless you remove it, and flush it. In this case, you still don't really have to pre-fill it. Think of your car engine starting every time you hit the key. Unless you have modified your car, you will not have an ignition key operated oil pressure accumulator to prime your engine as a pre-start sequence.
                          sigpic'06 750Kat, SCORPIO alarm, integrated turn sigs into smoked LED tail light, gun metal frt turn sigs & windshield, shovel MIA, AMSOIL throughout, TARGA tank cover, PIIA 130Db Sport Horns. 16-45 sprocket set-up

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by baddkat View Post
                            Unless you have modified your car, you will not have an ignition key operated oil pressure accumulator to prime your engine as a pre-start sequence.
                            Depends on the make & model. Our audi does have it stock.

                            Cheers,
                            =-= The CyberPoet
                            Remember The CyberPoet

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The CyberPoet View Post
                              Depends on the make & model. Our audi does have it stock.
                              LOL, great! but you missed my point, LOL OK, the average car, or most cars, or some cars, or some crappy cars....help me out here.
                              sigpic'06 750Kat, SCORPIO alarm, integrated turn sigs into smoked LED tail light, gun metal frt turn sigs & windshield, shovel MIA, AMSOIL throughout, TARGA tank cover, PIIA 130Db Sport Horns. 16-45 sprocket set-up

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