[bigbike-r]

belt drive? thats the weirdest thing ive seen. ive never heard of this till i saw this harley style bike at my breakers yard i was totally amazed by it. its a good idea though aint it

[StevieB]

Re: Belt Drive and Race Cars

There was also a famous GP car with four front wheels on two separate (parallel) axles.

I remember that car- the Terrell 6-wheeler! What a show-stopper! Turned the whole F1 scene on it's ear. Lotus tried a car with 4 REAR driven wheels, thinking they could use smaller tires and get better aerodynamics, at about the same time. The Terrell was such a sensation, ex-Beatle George Harrison, who was a big motorsport fan, referenced it in a song on his "33 and a third" Album:

"Someone's driving
A six-wheeler,
and his world is all a blur.
Knows he in a
show-stealer,
with a sound that un-compared..."

(Oh, and I did that from memory, didn't Google it or anything.)

I STILL have a Aurora HO-scale slot car with a Terrell 6 body.

Hey, thanks for the memories, Cyber!

(Acutally, I thought this thread of mine was totally dead, then someone new discovers it. Cool.)

[ramirez3623]

I like chain drive better

[Guiness]

CP - that Rokon is some kind of cool. Never heard of it before, thanks for pointing it out. Looks like the company does still exist and is happily manufacturing 3 different models

Ever heard of the Argo? A really neat amphibious vehicle.

[The CyberPoet]

Ever heard of the ARGO? A really neat amphibious vehicle.

Yeah, the Banana Split's Mobile (if you're old enough to remember the Banana Splits... )



Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[BarMatt80]

Re: Belt Drive and Race Cars

Name front wheel drive car that has raced in GP?

There have been a bunch of 4WD formula 1 cars, especially in the 1960 thru 1970 time frame...does that count?

Any serious "race" car, pro or SCCA is either RWD or AWD..

So sure it counts but I said that...
You just wanted to show off the "family photos" didn't you??
If I'm not mistaken there was a diesel Indy Car once.. no?

um not before but there is a diesel.......

http://www.autoblog.com/2005/12/13/official-unveiling-audi-r10-le-mans-prototype/

also diesel is purpose built, and more advanced in technology i think than gasoline. and with front wheel drive it takes less hp to move an opposed rearwheel drive like 300 hp front wheel is the same as a 500 hp rear....with same variables.

[The CyberPoet]

Re: Belt Drive and Race Cars

um not before but there is a diesel.......

http://www.autoblog.com/2005/12/13/official-unveiling-audi-r10-le-mans-prototype/

With the Audi R10 (which is a 5.5 liter 90-degree V-12 TDI engine), Audi racing won the '06 Le Mans (most distance covered, longest distance on one tank & the fastest flying lap record as well), as well as the 12-hours of Sebring in March & won in the American Lemans Series (ALMS) by the 8th race of the 10-race series.
The engine spits out just over 800 lb-ft of torque and 650 HP, with the torque advantage coming on early (peak power-band is between 3k and 5k RPM). The fuel rail on the R10 is pressurized at 1600 ATM (yes, a hair over 23,500 PSI) -- mind blowing to me...

Audi has some pretty cool promo vids, including this one that I liked alot:
R10 Video (Win Media File, 14.5Mb, download)

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[Black_peter]

Re: Belt Drive and Race Cars

If I'm not mistaken there was a diesel Indy Car once.. no?

um not before but there is a diesel.......

http://www.autoblog.com/2005/12/13/official-unveiling-audi-r10-le-mans-prototype/

No I was right!!

Because enthusiasts have been conditioned to think of gasoline engines when it comes to performance, the idea of diesels may still be difficult to accept, but consider a few facts. Most race cars use alcohol, not gasoline today. Those race cars that do use gasoline use special high-octane racing gas not available at ordinary gas stations. As long ago as 1952, the car that won the pole at the Indianapolis 500 was a turbocharged diesel.

Pics:

http://www.indy500.com/photo/gallery.php?series_id=a:2:%7Bi:0;i:1;i:1;i:6;%7D&event_id=133&eventDate=1952-01-01

I love being right about insanly esoteric knowlege.

[md86]

Wonder what that thing woulda sounded like ....

[MarkGodfrey]

Well here is Aussie land a chain costs a couple of hundred and a belt 600 so thats one thing the other I am told is a loss of torque

[Steveb]

Re: Belt Drive and Race Cars

Name front wheel drive car that has raced in GP?

FIA 2006 Technical Regulations 9.5.2.

[Novelldude]

1. You people scare me.

2. Some really cool stuff in this thread.

3. Have to disagree with BP's initial statement. He said performance on the track. My thought is that the track crews want greatest *reliability* then they squeeze every ounce of performance out of a given technology. Then again, maybe that's what he really meant.

ND
If you only turn left, you're only half racin'

[The CyberPoet]

Re: Belt Drive and Race Cars

FIA 2006 Technical Regulations 9.5.2.

9.1 Transmission types No transmission system may permit more than two wheels to be driven.

9.5 Torque transfer systems :
9.5.1 Any system or device the design of which is capable of transferring or diverting torque from a slower to a faster rotating wheel is not permitted.
9.5.2 Any device which is capable of transferring torque between the principal axes of rotation of the two front wheels is prohibited.

The way I read it, that would mean you could use front wheel drive as long as there is no torsen or other limited-slip differential involved (the lack of which would wreak havoc for trying to steer well and/or tire wear), OR the car utilizes a double-set of front wheels (i.e. 4 wheels in the front) and the secondary set of forward wheels are actually the drive-wheels (because then they could be permissibly slipped through the differential)...

Naturally, all these rules were developed over time, and before any given rule was developed, it was "anything goes" in that particular area.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[Black_peter]

3. Have to disagree with BP's initial statement. He said performance on the track. My thought is that the track crews want greatest *reliability* then they squeeze every ounce of performance out of a given technology. Then again, maybe that's what he really meant.

I think what I was saying (it was a while ago) is that if there were true performance gains either in durability, weight or power transmission then the racers would use them. While I do think that durability does lose to horse power (all it needs to do is last 1 race..) knowing that XX part will not break is one less thing to worry about and you can focus more effort into other things. There are lots of technoligies that haven't made it from the track to the street yet. Carbon fiber brakes for example. There is an item that for lots of reasons is only suited for the track. But back in the day people were not sure it was going to last. Slipper clutches too.. Race track kit only.. Sure you can buy them and I think street bikes have them but please... who needs one for the street? IMO race teams take many approaches to solving problems and edging out the competition. If belt drive offered any advantage at least one team would give it a go..

[Steveb]

Re: Belt Drive and Race Cars

[quote="The CyberPoet"]

FIA 2006 Technical Regulations 9.5.2.

9.1 Transmission types No transmission system may permit more than two wheels to be driven.

9.5 Torque transfer systems :
9.5.1 Any system or device the design of which is capable of transferring or diverting torque from a slower to a faster rotating wheel is not permitted.
9.5.2 Any device which is capable of transferring torque between the principal axes of rotation of the two front wheels is prohibited.

The way I read it, that would mean you could use front wheel drive as long as there is no torsen or other limited-slip differential involved (the lack of which would wreak havoc for trying to steer well and/or tire wear), OR the car utilizes a double-set of front wheels (i.e. 4 wheels in the front) and the secondary set of forward wheels are actually the drive-wheels (because then they could be permissibly slipped through the differential)...

Naturally, all these rules were developed over time, and before any given rule was developed, it was "anything goes" in that particular area.


Tech reg 12.2 fixes number of wheels at four.
I'm not sure I see 9.5.2 the same way. Certainly the same intent though.

No, the regs don't *really* say no FWD. They just make it impossible to have a chance of doing it effectively.

Check out 5.8.1.
Christ, I love a series that has to specificly ban plasma and laser ignition systems....