91 600f timming?

[nitroburner]

i just recently picked up a 600f that i was interested in. when i went to look at it the guy couldnt get it started. i decided that i wanted it anyway and hauled i home. that nigh i got her to run but not very well at all. i took the carbs off and went threw tham and replaced all the o rings and made sure everything was clean and clear. i put them all back together tonight and reinstalled them on the bike and it took awhile to get fuel to the cylinders but after i managed that she kept back firing threw the exhaust. taking note of that i decided to give her a shot of starting fluid to get the process going. after backfiring a few more times she fired and ran. i let her run for about 10 minutes and then i realized she was popping in the exhaust again so i shut it down. so i know there is a timing issue and some other things wrong so i wanted to make sure i knew were the timing should be set and how to change if need be. the other issue(really the same i think) is after running for hat period of time i was checking temp of the exhaust pipes and was shocked that i could place my hand on all them except number four. way too hot to touch. also led me to see that the front fender has melted due to the heat(done before i got the bike). i will upload pic tomorrow. any info would be great. thanks

[05RedKat600]

Carbs are still dirty. It's not a timing issue unless the cams have jumped time, I'll almost guarantee that. Afterfiring through the exhaust is a lean condition issue, which means the carbs are most likely still dirty. I take it you just spray cleaned them and didn't dip them? Have you checked the spark plugs?

If the front fender is melted due to heat, or more specifically engine heat, you probably have a larger issue.

You can go here and get a manual for your bike.

http://katriders.com/wiki/index.php5?title=Special:AllPages

[nitroburner]

i stripped the carbs of everything and let them sit in my parts washer all day. then after that i blew out all the cleaner with an air compressor, then used carb cleaner for a second attack then blew it all out again. after i was sure they were clean i put everything back together with new gaskets and o rings. so your saying that i only have problem in one cylinder than if that one is the only one getting hot? i haven't had a problem like this before so i am asking seriously

also i am still wanting to know about timing anyway since ill probably have to do that sometime anyway.

[arsenic]

Timing is 9 degrees BTDC. It's 21 pins on the cam chain between the marks on the cam sprockets.

[Wild-Bill]

Your carbs ain't right. Did you pull the A/F screws before dipping? They're under the brass EPA plugs.

While you're at it, set all the A/F screws to 2.5 turns out and see what you get.

Timing isn't adjustable. It's taken off a Hall-Effect sensor under the right side cover. (Not the clutch cover with the oil level inspection window.) Welcome to electronic ignition.



Oh, and welcome to KR.

[Kreylyn]

Most likely not a timing issue, but...

Remove the valve cover and check someone else hasn't mucked up the cams/timing chain. The manual covers the specifics, Arsenic gave the basic info of what to look for above. If the cams and chain are right, then...

Check your valves and make sure they have the proper clearances. Engine needs to be room temp to do this.

If the cams, chain, and valves are right... you can pretty much forget timing and focus on electrical, air, and fuel.

Double check the carbs are clean. As mentioned, if they were not disassembled and each body dipped, a/f screws removed, so on... they are not clean. Set the A/F screws at 2.5 turns out to start with. Carbs that have been pulled apart need to be synced before you do any fine tuning or worry about throttle reponse/rpm revs as out of sync carbs do all kinds of funky things.

Check your plugs are good, remove the plug boots and check the wire ends are soft and bendable. Cut off hard wire and screw the plug boots back on to make a better connection. Double check they are in the correct order. Check voltage at the coils with key on is no less than 12v with key on, and no less than 10.5 with starter turning the motor over.

Make sure you have a clean fuel source, and no vacuum leaks. Also don't forget that the petcock port on the carbs needs to be plugged off if it's not being used or that cuases a huge vacuum leak.

Krey

[steves]

Timing is static, and not adjustable.

[nitroburner]

well i completely tore down the carbs tonight as described in the carbs 101 i found on here and was surprised to find that even though they were soaking for at least 8 hours in a parts cleaner they were still really dirty. the emulsion tubes were all green and almost stuck to the diaphragm bodies.

the rubber that is on the bottom of the diaphragm bodies, is that supposed to be an o ring or a formed gasket? i cant tell due to mine being all messed up.(assuming from the solvent in the parts washer)

[05RedKat600]

I can't answer about the gasket, but I can say that each carb body should soak in the dip for 24 hours. As well as all the jets.

[Wild-Bill]

That's a number 7 o-ring, available at your local hardware store.

You do know you were supposed to remove all rubber bits from the carbs before soaking them, including the A/F screw o-rings under the brass EPA plug, right? Carb solvent tends to do a number on rubber. Any rubber you had in the dunk tank is shot and needs to be replaced.

It sounds like you left the diaphragms in there. If you're really lucky they may still be alright. hold them up to a light and stretch the rubber a little. If you can see any light through them then they're shot. If there's a little pinhole then you may be able to get away with using a little liquid electrical tape to fill that. About a 50/50 shot but worth trying considering the cost of new diaphragms.

[steves]

Unless he's talking about the plug at the bottom of the one jet...

[nitroburner]

i didnt have the diaphragms in when i soaked them. the the plastic piece that the emulsion tube goes threw was still in though. the oring under that is shot. that's what i was asking about. the carbs are guna soak in the solvent till tomorrow at 5ish then imma goo over them again with 3m carb cleaner to make sure that they are all clean.

[Wild-Bill]

That's a good plan. Follow up with some compressed air and don't forget to lube the choke plungers and butterfly shafts.

[nitroburner]

well i kinda forgot about my carbs for a few days. i just pulled them out of the dip about 30 minutes ago. they were in there way longer than 24 hours but i know it wont hurt anything. better chance they are clean. im guna start putting it all back together this weekend after i get my new katana project. i found another kat online that the guy is guna give me for a set of new tires for his truck. so ill have 2 kats to work on and get running. i have a 91 and getting a 95. both 600. i wanna update though and put the bigger fairing style on them. is this going to be able to e done without major modification or work at all? i dont really like the slim and narrow rear of this current body style. i was thinking a 98 plastics, head light and tail light? i need to know before i buy. thanks

[Wild-Bill]

Get them both running, sell them and buy yourself an 1100. Woohoo!

In the short term though, be sure you lube up the butterfly shafts on those carbs. That much time in the soak tank will suck the oil right out of those felt seals.