[Mojoe]

Mojoe, you may be the exception to the rule... Most people I know (including myself) had at least one accident during the first year. Whether that accident was a slip-n-fall at a panic stop, or something far more spectacular (in my case, a journey down a rain gulley followed by impact with a big boulder as a result of passenger actions that led me off the road to avoid going down -- and a subsequent 50 to 70 foot flying dismount while trying to nurse the bike home later that same night in bad shape), it is a normal part of learning to ride, especially when you're young. Watch any MSF course -- someone dumps in well over 90% of the classes.

You know cyber...I do agree that it can happen...and in many cases it does. And I do agree, in the classes someone does dump in well over 90% of the classes. I took the class 2 years ago...and I saw it. BUT, there were like 20 or so of us in the class, and only a couple actually dropped the bike...and one of them did it several times...it was a small female. So you can also consider it this way....20 in the class...only 2 dropped the bikes...that is only 10%. Out of the remaing students, I easily spotted a few others who you can plainly see will drop it someday. At the same time, half the students did well enough that I could see the possibility that they never will. So I guess what I am saying is that we must be riding with 2 totally different groups of riders, cuz out of the people I know and ride with personally....which is maybe 25-30 riders, I only know one who actually went down on his bike...and he did it because he fell asleep. Yes, that's right...fell asleep. He worked graveyard and dozed just enough in an off ramp that he went into the ditch and fell. Maybe some of the veteran riders I know went down at one time in the past and I don't know about it, but no one has ever mentioned it. But most of the riders I know are under 5 yrs experience, and besides the one who dozed off, none have gone down. There were the "domino effect" girls last summer, but that resulted in nothing more than a few little scratches and the bikes were stopped.

I'm a pessimistic optimist -- meaning I expect the worst and am always overjoyed and elated when it turns out better than that. But I will tell new riders that it is usually par for the course that they will go down as they learn the myriad of ways that it can happen -- fresh tires, rain-covered lane markings, a passenger that leans too far off to look backwards, panic reactions on the brakes, poor situational awareness, unexpected road debris...

I guess that is where we are different. I am more of a "prepared optimist". I don't flood my brain with negativity by expecting the worst. I hop on with safety and common sense as my tools and I ride with confidence and common sense (not saying you don't). I just think if you are expecting the worst, you are subconsciously inviting it. Maybe that is why you went down in the first year? Maybe the same for the people you know? And I feel if you tell a new rider to expect to go down, you are planting that idea in his head and making it more likely to happen cuz he is expecting it to. I just think if you hop on and tell yourself that you are just going to be careful and responsible, you are more likely to be careful and responsible....and things will go fine, but yet you know the risk is there and you are prepared for it. All those things you pointed out as can happening...the rain covered markings...panic braking...fresh tires...those are all things that can be easily avoided and a good msf class can prepare you for that. If you prepare yourself with knowledge before you even get on a bike, you can reduce the risks significantly. There are 2 ways to learn to ride. You can learn as much as possible before even getting on a bike....or you can learn as you go. The latter is where you are most likely to take a dump. If you go with the first, you could go your whole life without it ever happening.

[Mojoe]

I know what I just said is off the point of the thread. It has nothing to do with the monetary issue of the subject. I just don't think telling someone not to buy a new bike because they are going to drop it is not the reason I would give to not buy new.
There are plenty of other reasons that you have clearly pointed out that I DO agree with, but just not that one.
And Duff...I see your point and agree with it somewhat. I have never owned a new bike in over 20 years of riding. The closest I came is a 92 bought in 93. It is just more economically viable to buy used over new...simple as that. But there are also benefits. A warranty is one. Less cash out of pocket to start is another. And don't forget the all important one....you have worked hard and planned carefully to be able to treat yourself to a nice new bike of your choice.....and that is perfectly ok to do.

[paperairplane]

My guess is that he can come up with $1k - $1500 readily enough if it's important to ride... and if he can't, then there's serious justification as to why he shouldn't be getting a long term loan. At least in my humble opinion...

This is the best advice you're gonna get dude. If suzu won't approve you on a $4K loan, theat means kawi is going to finance you at like 17+++% and you will pay waaaay too much for a 500 that you will sell next year. Except when you go to sell it you will owe more than it is worth.

I started on a EX500 and went to a kat 750 - which is a good way to learn. A lot of pp here disagree with me, but I think a kat is a big heavy bike to learn on. Something like a ninja 500 is about perfect.

Any of these would suit your noobie needs at a low price:
bandit 400/600, sv650, ninja 250/500, nighthawk, gs500, cbr F2/F3, Seca II, fzr 600 genesis, ltd454 - any one of these with under 15K should be about $2K - insurance will be cheap and you can carry liability only which will be cheaper still.

I still think you should progress on bikes - 250 for a month, 500 for 6 months, 600/750 for 2 years and then whatever you want....

[Mojoe]

I am curious. I am just wondering how many people who advise not to buy a new bike because of the interest rates, depreciation value...etc...etc, have bought a new car in their lifetime? I hope none, because it would sort of make one a hypocrite.
Buy a brand new car today for $20k, and try to sell it tomorrow. If you are extremely lucky, you will get $16k for it....a loss of $4...or about 20%...which is the minimum you lose as soon as you drive it off the lot.
Buy a new bike today for $10k, and I am sure you can get $8.5k for it the next day...a loss of only 15%.
I would have to guess that any car under 2 years old that still has financing on it (if you take a 5 year loan), is financed for more that it is worth. I have seen people take a beating on trade-ins and lost $ just for that reason.
A bike doesn't depreciate as fast as a car...so what is the difference really?
Anyway...I though this post was to get the boy on a bike....not plan out his whole budget for him for the next 10 years. 90% of the population are stretched out on credit to the point of being one paycheck from bankruptcy anyway, so he would just be in the "norm" if he financed from kawa.

I still think you should progress on bikes - 250 for a month, 500 for 6 months, 600/750 for 2 years and then whatever you want....

I agree with that 100% for all new and inexperienced riders. It should be a law concerning safety issues. Although I would start at the 500 mark. A 250 with a rider to big for the bike can be equally as dangerous. Sometime acceleration can save your life. Try passing a slower moving vehicle and then getting right beside them and finding out the bike, or cage, just doesn't have anymore juice to give.....and here come an 18 wheeler straight at you.

[KatanaO215]

watch out with financing from the manufacturers. Alot of times they have a great rate early and after a year the rates jump to over 20%. Read the details before you sign anything