The road & you

[loneraider]

Ever see a guy zippen down the road with shorts & t-shirt..lol
No gloves ,pants or boots.....scary stuff GEAR UP EVERYONE
Most of my gear I bought 2nd-hand,saved a ton of money.
It may take a little longer to put on but It will save your A** in a fall !!

[zuma]

Yep, and shower shoes. I learned fast though.

[tone]

I'm a big boy now been riding a hell of a lot of years & know the rules, its my skin my life and my choice i really dont need telling thanks

[loneraider]

Well that just says once again " YOU CAN'T BEAT STUPID WITH A STICK"
++++++1

[tone]

Stupid is posting an opinion in the wrong section shouting about the benifit of good gear to people who are all adults & already know the facts

For your information my personal choice is to use quality gear every time i ride, which in most days, its not secondhand shite off ebay either so now who's stupid ?

My only issue with this subject is people being determined to take personal choice away from the rider, something ive been fighting against for the last 35 years

[Lykkan]

[loneraider]

Let me respond by saying the reason I posted this is for the newbie's on this forum who just purchased their first bike and think all they need is just a helmet!! Second of all , shoei helmet ,and sidi corsa vertigo boots are not what I would call junk or e bay trash. I stated that you can buy very good gear at lower prices from people that are getting out of biking from online
sites as craigslist or kijji. I have bought gloves, boots, jackets ,.ect that were
seldom used for half the price of new!. As far as gearing up ,yes it is an individual choice to wear protective clothing and each to his own (skin)
But if you had half the experience I have at riding you would not contest
the fact that wearing the best gear you can afford is worth it if you happen to take a fall.

[ZukiFred]

Yes Tone everyone has the choice, and loneraider has the right to express how he feels about wearing gear. So you don’t have too if you don’t want to, I don’t think he will come over and make you.

Personally I rode many years without gear. Just t shirt, jeans, sneaker and sunglasses for eye protection. But as I got older I got smarter. Now it is full gear every ride.

[katinvermont]

Personally I rode many years without gear. Just t shirt, jeans, sneaker and sunglasses for eye protection. But as I got older I got smarter. Now it is full gear every ride.

That's ironic; for many years I always rode with gear, until a few years ago. I usually still do, but on a hot day I might take a short hop in shorts and a t-shirt. I do so knowing that if I go down even at low speed it's not going to be pretty.

It is certainly a personal decision though, but let's face it ... if your top priority is that you want to be really safe ... you belong in a cage, not on a bike. Even with gear it's sort of risky business.

[Lykkan]

That's ironic; for many years I always rode with gear, until a few years ago. I usually still do, but on a hot day I might take a short hop in shorts and a t-shirt. I do so knowing that if I go down even at low speed it's not going to be pretty.

It is certainly a personal decision though, but let's face it ... if your top priority is that you want to be really safe ... you belong in a cage, not on a bike. Even with gear it's sort of risky business.

+14
I prefer to ride with a leather jacket and until yesterday I've never rode with shorts on. Sometimes if you want to ride in the heat you don't really have a choice but to wear less clothing. I rather go down butt naked in 90 degrees than go down ever fully clothed(geared) in 60 degrees. Personal opinion.

[tone]

I see my post has sparked a debate which was the intention

Ive been riding on the road legally since 1979 & not so legally for a few years before that so think i may have some idea of whats decent kit & what is not

I've also been a member of various riders rights groups since long before i could legally ride on the road so although i always think riding in shorts & trainers etc is plain stupid i will defend anyones right to do just that as long as they know the risks

The point of my post was to highlight the fact that the more people perpetuate the idea that you MUST wear leathers, boots, gloves etc etc & the more it becomes the acceptable norm & the easier it becomes for any government to legislate for it IE to FORCE every rider to do the same

For example it became the norm for people to wear hi-vis jackets in france so recently their government tried to make it LAW that EVERY biker had to wear them at all times

Another example is daytime lights here in the UK the government tried to make it law that every bike had to use lights at all times despite there being no proven safety benifit, this attempt at legislation failed but now nearly all new bikes imported here come with lights you cant turn off, its becoming the norm & it wont be long before they try to make it law again, think of the consequences of that it you run an old bike where the charging system simply is not up to the job, it would effectivly see most of these classics off the road

As i understand it in the US different states have different laws but how long is it going to be before some bright spark decides to standardise them ? i guess it wont be the easy to live with laws that become the accepted norm accross the board but the harder to live with ones, helmets in every state, full leathers etc to go to the local shop & kit checks at the side of the road ??????????

There is a picture of things to come for you in the US & trust me its not pretty, a quick search shows no effective riders rights groups in the US, isn't it about time you all started to stand up for yourselves & get off that slippery slope which has already started by people perpetuating the opinion that you MUST wear kit all the time

Ride safe Tone

[Lykkan]

I laugh at all the idiots in florida that don't wear a helmet. In my town, 75% of riders don't wear a helmet. Not wearing one must make you look cool. I'll stick with my jetfighter full face

[Kreylyn]

I've also been a member of various riders rights groups since long before i could legally ride on the road so although i always think riding in shorts & trainers etc is plain stupid i will defend anyones right to do just that as long as they know the risks

Aware of and understanding the risks are really different things. One of the most common reactions I have seen of riders under geared who ended up with a get off suddenly "understand" what the risks are, and now wear gear religiously.

The point of my post was to highlight the fact that the more people perpetuate the idea that you MUST wear leathers, boots, gloves etc etc & the more it becomes the acceptable norm & the easier it becomes for any government to legislate for it IE to FORCE every rider to do the same

For example it became the norm for people to wear hi-vis jackets in france so recently their government tried to make it LAW that EVERY biker had to wear them at all times

Another example is daytime lights here in the UK the government tried to make it law that every bike had to use lights at all times despite there being no proven safety benifit, this attempt at legislation failed but now nearly all new bikes imported here come with lights you cant turn off, its becoming the norm & it wont be long before they try to make it law again, think of the consequences of that it you run an old bike where the charging system simply is not up to the job, it would effectivly see most of these classics off the road

As i understand it in the US different states have different laws but how long is it going to be before some bright spark decides to standardise them ? i guess it wont be the easy to live with laws that become the accepted norm accross the board but the harder to live with ones, helmets in every state, full leathers etc to go to the local shop & kit checks at the side of the road ??????????

There is a picture of things to come for you in the US & trust me its not pretty, a quick search shows no effective riders rights groups in the US, isn't it about time you all started to stand up for yourselves & get off that slippery slope which has already started by people perpetuating the opinion that you MUST wear kit all the time

Ride safe Tone

AMA - American Motorcycle Association is the largest, and very active motorcycle foundation for motorcycle rights. They are effective with multiple major "wins" recently on improper or intrusive laws/regulations. There are even many active members who are currently in government roles; senators, congressmen, and even state governors. There are more organizations, but AMA is by far one of the largest.


Your statement about no research backing up lights on is safer is incorrect. There are multiple reports contrary to your statement. If you NEED me to link them for you, I can... but surely you can google that one, right? Additionally, information was recently released that suggested additional lights provided even better results. Prior reports show a single light does increase the chance of being seen, but multiple lights improve the viewer's depth perception of the vehicle by giving a better frame of reference.


For reference, most states if not all in the US has required headlights for years now. An argument that "older" bikes can't handle that is just ignoring the basic facts that every professionally manufactured bike out there for a ridiculously long time has been made to have a head lights for night time rides. No being able to handle a headlight being on is not an excuse for the capability of the bike, but one for the owner's lack of simple repair/upkeep. If you can't afford to ride, then perhaps you shouldn't eh?


Most states already have a minimal expectation for gear. Proper footwear, eye protection, and many states have helmet laws. I appreciate your concern that someone may want to standardize those, but it's based in an ignorance of the general populace thoughts and feelings on state's rights. A simple example of "yeah, that's not gonna happen!" would be the federal gov trying to make State ID (driver's liscense) standardized for identification purposes. Yeah, that went up in a major flame because state government officials said "FU, you can't tell us what to do even if it is a good idea!".


I support the rights of individuals to make poor choices, as long as the resulting actions they take do not affect others. Drinking and Driving is an obvious example of poor choice but bad for others. Being careless and hurting yourself is less obvious in how it can effect others. If your paying of the insurance that covers your stupidity, I'm all for you going for it! If taxpayers have to pay, well... now that means some of us might have a say in some expectations of what you do.


You know, it's really simple. If a person doesn't want laws making you have to do it, then ask yourself "why do laws get made? Because lots of people make excessively bad choices. A simple example... Multiple states in the US are actively passing or recently passed laws making it illegal to block or hold up traffic in the left lane of major interstates. Is that any thing more than really just an annoyance? No. But so many people want to hold to the "right" that they can so screw you..., they will gladly be stupid and piss off others just because. So the general populace has to step in and prove, No, you don't have a right to just be an ass... and thus a new law is born.



So... the summary of my opinions....


Preaching ATGATT is a positive way to help bring better understanding of the choice to newer riders who just don't know and getting experienced riders to more actively make better choices, with out requiring it by law.


Yes, I think you should have the right to choose unless others are expected to pay for your poor choice. If I have to pay because your making bad choices, then at the very least it should be acceptable to require simple basic choices that mitigate that pay out. That's primarily what gear requirements are.


To me... if you support having the choice, an intelligent way to approach it is to support the ATGATT message. If your going to post hateful responses about you being an adult and having the choice blah blah blah... well I guess that will continue to be a reminder of why government gets to be involved. Some people...


Krey

[rschlegel]

Preaching ATGATT is the proper thing to do IMHO. Telling someone that they are an idiot for not doing it is wrong. I personally believe that not wearing the right gear is a poor choice. I layed a bike down at over 100mph in sneakers, beach baggie pants and windbreaker. I was wearing a helmet and gloves. I was a young idiot. The worst choice I made was not the clothing I wore, it was the attitude I rode with. With that said I shake my head when I see someone without a helmet just because how easily you can damage one of the most difficult parts of your body to repair. Again IMHO.

[Slammer46]

I personally agree with people having choice.... But I wear all the gear and my 22 yr old son does cause I told I catch him without keys go bye bye. That is not government intrusion it be dad and mom not wanting to visit the hospital .

But it is a choice and we simply need to observe the law of the land.

Cheers