Trying to understand this "Counter steering" Ive been reading here

[Jcerillo70]

Hi guys,

Ive had dirt bikes and quads before but this is my first street bike. I have my license and everything and took the pre class. 2 years later now i bought my first bike.

On my first ride, (just on side streets) i figured just like on my baja bike you simply lean into the turns. Left turns seemed to be fine but right turns (Im righty). I seemed to be hesitant about for some reason.

Never steering with the handlebars, i just always leaned.

Im reading on here about counter-steering and how if you want to

make a left turn,steer right and lean left

make a right turn, steer left and lean right.

obviously this isnt a theory i want to test on my intro to street bikes. lol but if i can have someone elaborate on correct method of turning around corners, leaning,steering. Tips and techniques, that would be awesome. Thanks guys!

I read all the stickys all ready, just trying to make sense of it before i try it.

-Joe Cerillo

[Kreylyn]

Most people over think counter stearing. If you have ever ridden a bicycle then you know how to counter steer.

It is simply a way for you move the tires out or back under you for turns. You still lean to make the turn. Counter steering simply moves the tires out from under you to make the bike lean one way or the other... or brings them back under you to stop the lean.

As your approaching a turn it's very light but you are counter steering. The more agressive you do this, the quicker the bike will react for turns.

These guys for example are using counter steering to get around the cones. They aren't even really getting over far enough to "lean" any... just flicking the wheel out left or right around the cone through counter steering.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z-AHycukAA"]Saturday practice - fast weave cones - YouTube[/ame]

So as you ride faster through curves, or need to make emergency turns or adjustments... it's counter steering that you use to start those with.

Krey

[jimallen2009]

Its very confusing until you try it yourself. the next time your on a road by yourself, just simply try pushing your left hand forward, then your right hand. once you do this, youll see how counter steering works. its not hard at all

[skjeflo]

Before I took my MSF, before I owned a bike, before I even knew what kind of bike I was going to end up with, I found David Hough's book - Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well.

It will explain counter steering and many other things that a new street rider NEEDS to know.

FWIW

[Jcerillo70]

cool! Thanks guys. I guess its more confidence building on those turns then anything

[Slofuze]

You're probably counter-steering already without knowing it. You wouldn't be able to take a curve or a corner if you didn't .......it's impossible. Simple explanation..... the next time you take a curve by leaning, try to tell which hand you're actually applying pressure to. If you're leaning to the right, I guarantee you're putting pressure on your right hand......but the bike doesn't go left.

[Jcerillo70]

You're probably counter-steering already without knowing it. You wouldn't be able to take a curve or a corner if you didn't .......it's impossible. Simple explanation..... the next time you take a curve by leaning, try to tell which hand you're actually applying pressure to. If you're leaning to the right, I guarantee you're putting pressure on your right hand......but the bike doesn't go left.

The more i think about it now, i think your right.

Its not alot of pressure but it is the dominant arm through the turn

[Stefano Il Postino]

if you're going to just try it, i would advise do it on straight, empty, wide road. Do it at relatively low speed, say 20mph, and just gently apply pressure with the heel of you hand, either bar. The bike will respond immediately and affirmatively. Just experiment going gently side to side, you push, the bike leans and turns for you. Once you've gotten a feel for it you can then apply it to your riding, higher speeds and through the twisties. Enjoy!

[Stumpy]

For a bike the size and weight of a Kat - at 20mph there may not be enough (or too much, depending how you look at it) inertia for countersteering to become readily apparent. The effect will be there of course, but OP may not immediately sense it, or overdo it slightly and lead to handlebar steering mishaps

He'll have been doing it forever of course, but there is a big "oh wow!" moment when you do it conciously and can get something big and tubby like a Kat swinging like a metronome around cats eyes

I'd run out and see if I can find a minimum speed for an obvious effect - BIG thunderstorm here at the moment though.

[skjeflo]

For a bike the size and weight of a Kat - at 20mph there may not be enough (or too much, depending how you look at it) inertia for countersteering to become readily apparent. The effect will be there of course, but OP may not immediately sense it, or overdo it slightly and lead to handlebar steering mishaps

He'll have been doing it forever of course, but there is a big "oh wow!" moment when you do it conciously and can get something big and tubby like a Kat swinging like a metronome around cats eyes

I'd run out and see if I can find a minimum speed for an obvious effect - BIG thunderstorm here at the moment though.

I know that when I got on my Kat after doing the MSF course there was a HUGE difference in feeling when counter steering, even at low speeds.

The main things to my mind, are twofold:
First, compared to the 250 Dual Sport I did my class on, the Kat is far heavier to start with.
Second, it feels like all that extra weight is sitting right in your lap. VERY top heavy feeling. The first time I took the Kat out after the course I thought I was going down in the first 20+mph corner I took, just because with a pretty gentle input the bike felt like it was literally falling right into the pavement. Really easy to "overdo it" the first few times.

Having ridden quite a bit more I'm used to it now, but it was interesting getting used to it.

[Jcerillo70]

Thanks guys,

Its just difficult to comprehend thinking about how it works without doing it i assume lol My choke cable is getting replaced this week so ill have her back friday with great hopes and ill find a parking lot to practice.

my father drove it there but he wont be around to pick it up so ill have to ride her home for that 14 minute trip. then ill practice the counter steering on a side street stretch

[Stumpy]

http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~fajans/pub/pdffiles/SteerBikeAJP.PDF

This pretty much explains it

[edromero]

Before I took my MSF, before I owned a bike, before I even knew what kind of bike I was going to end up with, I found David Hough's book - Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well.

It will explain counter steering and many other things that a new street rider NEEDS to know.

FWIW

i read that one too - excellent

[Jcerillo70]

So i got my bike back and i've been playing with the steering. IT seems when your going anything faster than 20 MPH you can even turn the handlebars. It is a matter of all leaning and shifting of body weight. Ive noticed that if i shift my weight more towards my butt and lean i get better turns.

As far as the arms, its almost like i lock it out when i turn. (left turn= left arm locks out)

So i mean im doing it and its working, but i feel like there should be an easier way to turn. I did a 10 mile ride with my father a couple days ago. Jesus it was fun. I went up to 50 in a 50 and my heart was pounding lol i want to drive it to work next saturday which is a 25 mile ride, so i have alot of practicing to do today and wednesday.

[Kreylyn]

So i got my bike back and i've been playing with the steering. IT seems when your going anything faster than 20 MPH you can even turn the handlebars. It is a matter of all leaning and shifting of body weight. Ive noticed that if i shift my weight more towards my butt and lean i get better turns.

As far as the arms, its almost like i lock it out when i turn. (left turn= left arm locks out)

So i mean im doing it and its working, but i feel like there should be an easier way to turn. I did a 10 mile ride with my father a couple days ago. Jesus it was fun. I went up to 50 in a 50 and my heart was pounding lol i want to drive it to work next saturday which is a 25 mile ride, so i have alot of practicing to do today and wednesday.

Yes, shifting your weight to the inside will improve your turning experience.

No, you should never "lock" your arms. If your able to, your in the wrong body position. Lean forward a bit more and always keep them bent and flexible.

You will see much more experienced riders when aggressively riding leading way forward... it looks like they are "kissing the mirror" as it might be referred to. Your still going to do this but just not as extreme of a lean.

Experience and practice with turns will make you realize that turning is very easy. If you want to go left, lean left foot, push left hand... you will go left VERY quickly...

A large parking lot and some tight curve transitions.... start slow, and work up in speed as you improve = light bulb will go off.

It also helps to find someone trustworthy who is experienced at sport riding. You mentioned your father... what does he ride?

Krey