[hardlydangerous]

cars have sycros to aid smooth shifting for this reason.
Motorcycles do not, so your just meshing two different gears spinning at two different speeds. This can be done but it does cause premature damage. Any motorcycle mechanic can tell a transmission that has been used shifting without the clutch. The clutch is there to reduce the load and shock when meshing the gears together under load.
There is NO benifits to clutchless shifting what so ever. There is however several downsides.
Miss a shift once and it can break the gear off without the clutch to take the load off the main shaft. Thats what destorys most 2nd gears in bikes and ATVs a missed shift and a panick reset with out the clutch fully disengaged.

like I said... I dont care if people use the clutch or not. its cash in my pocket. I have a dirtbike engine on my bench right now for a transmission repair if anyone wants to see.

[Morphish]

Thanks, everyone.

Looks like the consensus is that it causes extra wear. Odd that the book would recommend it - I guess they were discussing race applications or something. I appreciate the clarification.

[Devinjordan]

I have a dirtbike engine on my bench right now for a transmission repair if anyone wants to see.

i wana see the internals of the tranny.

i agree use the clutch. i dont see any good things from not using it. sure you may think your shifting really fast and smooth. but a half decent rider can shift just as fast and smooth with the clutch and still have a good tranny. thats just my 0.2 cents

[scottynoface]

We're not talking about racing...we're talking about katanas...

Racing is a whole different story...a tranny rebuild is worth an extra second on lap times over a season dirt or street...

[05RedKat600]

cars have sycros to aid smooth shifting for this reason.
Motorcycles do not, so your just meshing two different gears spinning at two different speeds. This can be done but it does cause premature damage. Any motorcycle mechanic can tell a transmission that has been used shifting without the clutch. The clutch is there to reduce the load and shock when meshing the gears together under load.
There is NO benifits to clutchless shifting what so ever. There is however several downsides.
Miss a shift once and it can break the gear off without the clutch to take the load off the main shaft. Thats what destorys most 2nd gears in bikes and ATVs a missed shift and a panick reset with out the clutch fully disengaged.

like I said... I dont care if people use the clutch or not. its cash in my pocket. I have a dirtbike engine on my bench right now for a transmission repair if anyone wants to see.

I dare you to go to a MotoGP race and preach that. They will laugh at you.

Also, you need to be more clear. Motorcycle transmissions are constant mesh so you're not banging gears into one another. Dogs engage the sides of the gears to the shafts, and the forks move the dogs. I hope YOU know this, it's more the the folks who don't.

[Morphish]

i wana see the internals of the tranny.

i agree use the clutch. i dont see any good things from not using it. sure you may think your shifting really fast and smooth. but a half decent rider can shift just as fast and smooth with the clutch and still have a good tranny. thats just my 0.2 cents

By cutting the throttle 20% or so with the shifter preloaded the upshifts were just so clean and effortless. It made me feel like I knew what I was doing.

I'll use the clutch. I don't fancy an early transmission rebuild.

[Devinjordan]

Racing is a whole different story...a tranny rebuild is worth an extra second on lap times over a season dirt or street...

i agree. but regular riding on a kat or any street bike is not that hard to just pull the lever.

i drive trucks where the clutch has no effect except for leaving from a stop. you shift with no clutch threw all 18 gears and back down them, does it hurt the tranny,...no but its made like that. is the kats tranny made for clutchless shifting, i don't believe

[scottynoface]

Katana shift dogs are mad of warm milk chocolate...

Again, unless you're racing where 1/10 of a second matters you aren't really benefiting from shifting without the clutch...

I do it, but its all personal preference...

[Morphish]

Yaknow, I forgot to mention this. Might be important - My Katana doesn't have an original motor in it. It's a B12. Does that change the answer to this question?

[Devinjordan]

no.

[loudnlow7484]

I use the clutch from first to second, and then never again on the way up. One of the prime selling points of sequential transmissions (like in motorcycles, or really fancy aftermarket car transmissions) is the ability to upshift sans clutch.

Your car's transmission is NOT a sequential transmission, and really shouldn't ever be shifted without the clutch. Is it possible? Sure.... but it's not wise, even in racing. All formula cars, as far as I know, use sequential transmissions anyway. I know the top level stuff does, and I know that Formula Ford cars do, but I don't know about others.

[hardlydangerous]

I dare you to go to a MotoGP race and preach that. They will laugh at you.

Also, you need to be more clear. Motorcycle transmissions are constant mesh so you're not banging gears into one another. Dogs engage the sides of the gears to the shafts, and the forks move the dogs. I hope YOU know this, it's more the the folks who don't.

Ummmm i never said it rounded off teeth I said it damages the engagement dogs. leading edges will slowly be chewed away trailing edges will start to notch.
Race bikes are rebuilt after everyrace, they also run them a dangerously lean fuel/air ratios for peak power.
These bikes are equiped with peen hardened gears when avaialble custom shift components like modified shift drums heavier springs etc and beefed up drive lines. Have you ever seen how heavy the clutch springs are on a GP bike. racers dont use the clutch all the time to reduce arm pump however many use the clutch more then you think. Did I mention the insane weight difference?

you can't compare a GP race bike to a Kat or almost any street bike that needs to last YEARS without any problems. Ive spent years rebuilding race engines on weekly basis for various MX and flat tract teams. The transmissions take a LOT of abuse and wear from not using the clutch

[Mojoe]

I dare you to go to a MotoGP race and preach that. They will laugh at you.

MotoGP racers also have these things called sponsors who pay for parts, and a crew of mechanics, who will rip into the engine after every race and change what needs to be changed before the next race. if you have a sponsor and your own crew of mechanics, then by all means, ride like a motogp race on your kat :

Ya, that's exactly how the second gear dies in a Kat.

actually, the reason 2nd gear dies in the kat....and many other suzuki models, is because the highest number of "mis-shifts" happen between 1st and 2nd. the "not so experienced" riders often don't snap it up into 2nd hard enough and hit neutral, then when they try to get it up into 2nd, it chatters. try it if you don't believe me.....take off fairly quick in 1st, then deliberately pop it into neutral, let go of the clutch, then pull the clutch in and try to snap it into second. you will find that 9 times out of 10 it doesn't go in all the smoothly.

the same also applies when downshifting.

also, many of you seem to say "as happens with the kat".....but in reality, the kat tranny is actually quite solid compared to the older suzukis. out of all the old GS's I used to buy and part out, pretty much half of them had bad 2nd gears. agreed, the 600 and 750 kats do have their problems with trannies, but not nearly as much as the older models used to. on the other hand, I have had a ton of 1127's pass through my shop, and never seen a bad second gear on any of them.

[steves]

Racing and street are two different conversations.....

[Mojoe]

Racing and street are two different conversations.....

for the most part, I agree. but for some azzhats, it's one and the same.