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Bike won't fire anymore!!!

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  • Bike won't fire anymore!!!

    I have a 92 600, and it will not start even with starting fluid after cleaning the rubber diaphragms that are under the top caps on the carbs. I inspected them to check for any cracks, tearing, or dryness and replaced one that was slightly torn. When looking at them there were a lot of tiny particles and fabric on them. So I sprayed a little carb cleaner on them and wiped them down to the best I could. When I reassambled them the bike would no longer start up even with starting fluid.

    Now before I cleaned those diaphragms the bike was not running normal at all. It would idle at around 4k and above; sometimes the rpms would even jump to 10k and I would have to hit the kill switch. Also it would sometimes idle below 4k and stall out, but all 4 pipes were getting hot and it sounded good as long as rpms were past 4k. The bike also seemed to be running lean because the spark plugs kept getting wet with gas and a little black. This was after buying a new set of carbs, replacing all the floats except one, cleaning everything out except the pilot jets because I could not get them out, and setting float height and a/f screws to 2.25 out.

    So the reason I cleaned the diaphragms was because when I opened the tops back up I saw that they looked like they could be cleaner, and maybe this would help something. Well, once I did that it no longer wanted to start, and I KNEW I had to get to those pilot jets eventually so I then took those out and replaced them with new ones. Upon attempting to remove the one pilot jet with an easy out I broke a peice off of where the pilot jet screws into. I then replaced that carb body with one of the old carbs that used to be on the bike.

    Whenever I replaced the body I saw that there is supposed to be a plug that goes where the pilot jet is screwed into. So I then got all new plugs and fitted them all in, saw that there were no o-rings where the vaccuum ports are, and got new o-rings as well.

    I then clean every part again, after already taking all the carbs apart and cleaning them 1000 times before and make sure everything fits right. Well I noticed the one float did not sit tight anymore so I replaced it with one that did fit, and checked the float height on it. I finally reassembled everything hoping that now everything should be 100%, but it still refuses to start. Even with starting fluid all it does is cough and put out a little smoke from the exhaust. It also now leaks gas from the carbs when turning over. So I will check the float heights again and see if the float needles are getting stuck.

    I am pretty much at a stand still right now except needing to check float height again, and would greatly appreciate some input as to what I should try next! I also bought a new battery and 4 new spark plugs. And sorry for the huge wall of text!

    tldr; cleaned and replaced parts on carbs except pilot, idled at 4k and above, had spark, all 4 pipes heating up the same. Then cleaned the rubber diaphgragms and will no longer start even with starting fluid, cleaned carbs again, replaced another diaphragm, bought new pilot jets and plugs, and vaccuum o-rings; now it leaks gas and won't start.

  • #2
    First:

    DONT SPRAY CARB CLEANER ON YOUR DIAPHRAGMS!! That stuff will eat those things like a fat kid & cake.

    Second:

    Lean = More air than gas = White, dry spark plugs
    Rich = More gas than air = Wet, Black spark plugs

    It sounds to me like the carbs are flooding. you're on the right track with checking the float height but thats not always the only culprit. Is the float snug in the holes? When you flip the carbs over, and pull the bowls, the floats should still be seated in the holes real well. There is a big hole and a small hole, the float is held in by o-rings. If when you take the bowl off the carb and you gently touch the float, does the big o ring come out of its seat or wiggle at all? It should be firmly in there and you should have to wiggle it out. If that o ring isn't seated real well where it can stay in without the bowl on, the fuel will bypass the closed float needle and come out around the o ring. You may need new o rings on the floats. Happened to me, sometimes you dont even need new orings, you just have to wiggle it in place rather firmly to make sure it seats all the way. If the carbs are flooding, introducing a smidgen of air is going to shoot your RPMs up but you may also want to look at the butterflies, are the residue around the carb body walls? I had black residue on the walls of my carbs once and it stopped the butterflies from closing but just by a cunt hair, but thats all it takes. Had the idle adjustment screw all the way out and it still was hanging from the butterflies being stuck open.

    Pilot jets are what you use at idle, they have very fine holes in them and are easily clogged. If you get the fuel delivery buttoned up and cant get it to idle, you are going to want to take a closer look at them since it sounds like they have been giving you trouble.

    Smell your oil, make sure it doesnt smell like gas, if those carbs are dumping gas into your head, every time the valves open the motor is gulping down gas which trickles down past the pistons and into the crankcase. If you smell gas, change the oil before you go riding.

    Once you get it all worked out, I recommend buying some new plugs. those ones are on their way to fouled, if they arent already there.
    Last edited by maniac1886; 05-23-2014, 02:25 PM.
    My build thread (Black Betty) '97 600 (Dearly Departed)
    http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=133286
    2007 GSXR 750

    Comment


    • #3
      Ok thanks for the advice with the diaphragms, won't do that again. What do you recommend I use to clean those off, water? Cause it is pretty damn hard to keep them totally particle free.

      Ah yes rich is what I meant to say, and the floats fit tight on both sides. I replaced the old ones because they practically fell out.

      Now the butterflies should be entirely closed is what you are saying right? I noticed when I first was taking apart these new carbs the butterflies were stuck SLIGHTLY open, but I adjusted it so they sat totally closed off. I will be checking for any residue now.

      Also, the pilot jets are for sure good because I replaced them all with brand new jets and plugs.

      Will defintely be changing the oil on this before I ride it. I have no idea last time the PO changed oil, and it has also sat for 2 years.

      And with the spark plugs I just bought new ones a week or two ago since messing with the carbs; do they really get fouled that easily? If so it's not that big of a problem plugs aren't that expensive
      Last edited by MasoBall; 05-23-2014, 02:33 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Carbs 101

        Do it right ONCE and then not have to redo it over and over and over again.

        While you are in there, spend the money ($50-60 on ebay) to buy the full K&L carb rebuild kits. Possibly a petcock rebuild kit as well, if testing shows that it doesn't work as it should.

        Oh, and have you done a carb sync?
        Last edited by skjeflo; 05-23-2014, 02:35 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by skjeflo View Post
          Carbs 101

          Do it right ONCE and then not have to redo it over and over and over again.

          While you are in there, spend the money ($50-60 on ebay) to buy the full K&L carb rebuild kits. Possibly a petcock rebuild kit as well, if testing shows that it doesn't work as it should.
          I have read carbs 101 multiple times as I have already had to redo it over and over again, could probably take them apart and back together blindfolded hah. And I have another set of carbs I have been using to replace parts as necessary.

          Petcock seemed to be working fine, as the bike was running just idling crazy high. Anything I can specifically test to make sure it is operating correctly?

          I have not synched them yet because I have been trying to get the bike to at least idle somewhat appropriately again
          Last edited by MasoBall; 05-23-2014, 02:43 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            the butterflies should just Barely be open. look at the holes below the butterflies, you wanna see like 1/4 of the first hole.

            +1 on carbs 101.

            plugs can go quick if they fill up with gas. they are under warranty if they are NGKs. just tske them back.

            I would only use water on the diaphragms, just make sure they are completely dry

            the pilot jets might be new but there could be gunk in the pilot circuits.if that gunks breaks free it wont pass through the jet. thus clogging your shiny new jets
            Last edited by maniac1886; 05-23-2014, 02:51 PM.
            My build thread (Black Betty) '97 600 (Dearly Departed)
            http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=133286
            2007 GSXR 750

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by maniac1886 View Post
              the butterflies should just Barely be open. look at the holes below the butterflies, you wanna see like 1/4 of the first hole.

              +1 on carbs 101.

              plugs can go quick if they fill up with gas. they are under warranty if they are NGKs. just tske them back.

              I would only use water on the diaphragms, just make sure they are completely dry
              I'm going to check the butterflies and see if they sit like that, but should that be with the idle adjustment all the way loosened?

              Am also going to try cleaning diaphragms again, and will see what type spark plugs I bought and hopefully take them back.

              Comment


              • #8
                if they aren't NGK, buy NGK. should be NGK - CR9EK

                idle adjustment screw should be backed off tils its just touching but not lifting the throttle
                My build thread (Black Betty) '97 600 (Dearly Departed)
                http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=133286
                2007 GSXR 750

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't know what your obsession with cleaning the diaphragms is, but it makes no difference. The jetting is on the other end duder.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by maniac1886 View Post
                    if they aren't NGK, buy NGK. should be NGK - CR9EK

                    idle adjustment screw should be backed off tils its just touching but not lifting the throttle
                    Ok will be trying this

                    Originally posted by arsenic View Post
                    I don't know what your obsession with cleaning the diaphragms is, but it makes no difference. The jetting is on the other end duder.
                    Yes I am just making sure EVERYTHING is crystal clean because this bike is giving me a major headache, and that is when it stopped firing. Right after I cleaned the diaphragms that second time it would no longer start at all; so I figured my issue has to be stemming from there.
                    Last edited by MasoBall; 05-23-2014, 03:00 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      keep us posted
                      My build thread (Black Betty) '97 600 (Dearly Departed)
                      http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=133286
                      2007 GSXR 750

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by maniac1886 View Post
                        keep us posted
                        Will do. There just may be lapses in time where I can't do anything because the bike sits at my brother's house for the time being.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Petcock testing, post #8 in this thread.

                          http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.p...esting+petcock

                          Carb float needle test, post #8 in this thread.

                          http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.p...low+test+carbs
                          Last edited by skjeflo; 05-23-2014, 03:34 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by skjeflo View Post
                            Petcock testing, post #8 in this thread.

                            http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.p...esting+petcock

                            Carb float needle test, post #8 in this thread.

                            http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.p...low+test+carbs
                            Thanks for the links I'll try those tests

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MasoBall View Post
                              Yes I am just making sure EVERYTHING is crystal clean because this bike is giving me a major headache, and that is when it stopped firing. Right after I cleaned the diaphragms that second time it would no longer start at all; so I figured my issue has to be stemming from there.
                              Have you thought about waxing the fairings? I guarantee it will help no less than cleaning the diaphragms. Okay, I'm done now, just couldn't help that one.

                              Comment

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