93 Katana 600 wont run right

[knightwing83]

1993 Katana 600 10k miles
Unknown stage 1 jet kit
Yoshimura single exhaust
coil relay mod
stock air box and filter
new battery (may 2012)
elev :5280ft
current Fuel setting are 1 & 2 at 5 turns 3 & 4 at 4 turns

Purchased November 2010 as my first Motorcycle. It had a bad pilot circuit, as in it would not idle for long without the choke but ran quite well in every other way. Feb 2011 I took everything apart to clean including the carbs but decided to take them to a local shop so I don't screw them up.
I was told that it needed the pilot jets reamed, a reseal kit and a general cleaning done. All this was done and I reinstalled the carbs and it turned into a continual project for the next year. Over the course of last year the battery died and I parked it because life happened and it is a spare mode of transportation.
April 2012 I decide to take the carbs back off and have them cleaned and inspected to make sure that last person put them together right. Everything checks out and I put everything back together and I still cant get it to run well enough to drive it. When I free rev it, it sounds crackly like it is lean. But I can smell fuel strong and I am getting some black smoke like it is rich.
To test AFR I got an IR thermometer to see what temp each header runner is running at. At idle (1800rpm) the temps are; 1. 435f, 2. 440f, 3. 330f and 4. 150f. Cylinder 4 to me seems like it is really rich, but why?

So I am wanting to know what is the fist problem I should chase. Did the shop do something wrong? Are my fuel screw settings that far off? Is this a classic carb sync problem that will go away if I can get it to the shop? I like to DIY as much a possible but I am not going to buy a manometer just to use it once.


If this exact thing has been covered please direct this Kat n00b to the correct thread.
Thanks, Robbie

[arsenic]

it's really rich because the A/F screws are at 5 and 4 turns out. They should be at 2.5 turns out.

[knightwing83]

I too thought that starting at 4-5 turns was excessive but from past experience, if I set all of them to anything less 4 turns it will be too lean to even idle.
I will try setting just #4 to 2.5-3 turns and see if that brings the EGT up to match the others.

Edit: or would that even work. Could that Pilot jet be messed up?

[05RedKat600]

I too thought that starting at 4-5 turns was excessive but from past experience, if I set all of them to anything less 4 turns it will be too lean to even idle.
I will try setting just #4 to 2.5-3 turns and see if that brings the EGT up to match the others.

Edit: or would that even work. Could that Pilot jet be messed up?

Then your carbs are still dirty. You need to totally dismantle them and soak each carb body in carb dip overnight. If the shop had to REAM the jets, I guarantee the passages in the carb itself are plugged too.

Carbs 101 in the Wiki is your friend. The bike should run and idle awesome at 2.5 turns out. If it doesn't, you have issues.

[Kreylyn]

What do you mean by "unknown" jetkit.

Lets start there... how many slots for the eclip on the needles? What jet sizes are the main jets?

Next... "reamed the pilot jets?" I'm thinking someone thinks you have a stage 3 dynojunk kit in there, but you don't have the airbox/filter setup for that (not that it would work well for you anyways).

Have you checked to make sure your plugs are good, the wires are on tight to the plug boots, and you have no misfiring going on (check in low light, looking at all wires and down into each cylinder well).

Once you know spark is good and not arcing/misfiring anywhere... and if it's still doing it... I would suggest change up to a known good Factory Pro stage 1 kit 1 size up on the main jets from oem with new OEM pilot jets... set at 3 turns out on all 4 of the a/f screws for your setup.

Krey

[knightwing83]

"Unknown Jet kit" meaning brand. I bought the bike used from a guy who only had it for a year and knew nothing about it. The first time I had the carbs worked on the shop asked if I knew what jet kit was in it, they assumed it was a Dynojet kit based on what it looked like.

As I was messing with the fuel screws and checking for vacuum leaks I noticed that the changes I was making to the fuel screws did nothing, to the sound and feel and EGT. Six turns out or one turn in, no change but last year after the first time they got "fixed" they functioned normally.

Because it is still not running as it should the shop is going to pick it up and make sure it is not due to their work. They will "warranty" the work if it did cause the issues and hopefully get my kat running correctly. If anything I have no problem purchasing a Factory pro kit and starting new.

[arsenic]

Is the "shop" the one that put the screws to 4 & 5 turns out? And now it's going back to them? This won't end well.

[knightwing83]

No, they had them set to 3 turns. I seem to be that idiot who set them that way. I did originally find those settings though trial and error from previous tuning attempts.
So to a professional it goes.

[Kreylyn]

As I was messing with the fuel screws and checking for vacuum leaks I noticed that the changes I was making to the fuel screws did nothing, to the sound and feel and EGT. Six turns out or one turn in, no change but last year after the first time they got "fixed" they functioned normally.

Pretty clear sign the pilot circuit is not clean. Just 1/4 of a turn should have a difference... if not, then the circuit is so restricted at this point that your not able to make changes with the screws.

Krey

[knightwing83]

Got my bike back last night after two months of it being completed but unable retrieve it, put it back together and gave it a ride. It was nice. But there are still issues.

The main problem ended up being the choke plungers were not installed correctly when the shop reassembled them. So it was over fueling cylinder #4(keeping it from firing) and making it impossible to to tune and sync. Now it is tuned and synced and will run, idle and drive great.

Before I sent my bike out to get "fixed" I rebuilt the fuel petcock with a factory rebuild kit. I mention this because now it does not want to stay running while in the "ON" or "RES" position. It will for a bit or if I stay on the throttle to keep it going but it sounds very lean. It will however run, idle and drive in the "PRI" position. I guess I need to check the vacuum hose to see if it came off or has deteriorated too much to hold enough vacuum.

It probably it a newish vacuum issue because I had to turn the idle up when I went for my first drive. After I had warmed it up it was only idling at 700ish rpm, so I turned it up a hair to 1000 rpm.

My quest continues.

[niko44]

Got my bike back last night after two months of it being completed but unable retrieve it, put it back together and gave it a ride. It was nice. But there are still issues.

The main problem ended up being the choke plungers were not installed correctly when the shop reassembled them. So it was over fueling cylinder #4(keeping it from firing) and making it impossible to to tune and sync. Now it is tuned and synced and will run, idle and drive great.

Before I sent my bike out to get "fixed" I rebuilt the fuel petcock with a factory rebuild kit. I mention this because now it does not want to stay running while in the "ON" or "RES" position. It will for a bit or if I stay on the throttle to keep it going but it sounds very lean. It will however run, idle and drive in the "PRI" position. I guess I need to check the vacuum hose to see if it came off or has deteriorated too much to hold enough vacuum.

It probably it a newish vacuum issue because I had to turn the idle up when I went for my first drive. After I had warmed it up it was only idling at 700ish rpm, so I turned it up a hair to 1000 rpm.

My quest continues.

Idle is supposed to be at 1100-1200 but you have to adjust to it after it is warm.

[ChandlerW]

Sounds like a typical Katana.

[knightwing83]

Just as I thought, the carburetor vacuum hose was not attached to the fuel petcock vacuum nipple. It looks like the shop had plugged it off to tune and sync it, but forgot to reconnect it. Pretty simple mistake for a reputable shop.

Its been pretty nice in Denver so I have been riding every day I can.

[arsenic]

The vacuum hose isn't supposed to be attached to the fuel tank.

[knightwing83]

Ok smartypants.

Seeing this is the internet, I will make sure my post correctly reflects and articulates what was actually was wrong. I guess saying the "the one thing on the fuel tank that has the knob and the other thing on the explodie part are not connected by the long tubie thingy" is a little vague.