Kat won't start cold

[donlon101]

In need of some assistance from far more knowledgeable people then myself. So I bought a 2005 Kat with 11,000 miles a couple months ago and almost immediately replaced the battery. The kat starts up usually with almost no cranking. When it gets cold, 45 degrees or less it will take longer to crank, and the battery doesnt crank more than 10 seconds total (i don't hold the starter for 10 seconds at once). I thought this was a very short period so I changed the battery again and get a little more cranking time (14 seconds total). But not enough to start (im stranded for the 4th time with no juice). From what I gather the PO never used the bike consistently, and often had to charge it before going for rides, so I assume the bike would sit sometimes for months. Where should I start? Im getting tired of having to drive my ninja...

By the way this is an awesome forum

[KAT TOY]

put the fuel to prime and use the choke. after starting return to on pos.

[rexazz2]

are you sure you are using the correct battery ?
if your using a cheap lead acid battery I would in my opinion switch to a maitenance free or AGM battery they are way better in my opinion
These little batteries only like to be slowly recharged anything else pretty much Efs them

you should be able to crank multiple times without issue

Does a brand new battery give you more than 10 or 15 seconds ?

if you have access to a car for boosting you can do that just leave the car turned off

when you get the bike running you need to connect a volt meter and making sure its charging

[donlon101]

The first battery I put in was brand new and compatible with the bike. I trickle charged it and used it in the bike with no problems for a couple weeks, until it got cold one morning and wouldn't start in the first 2 seconds. I charged it, but the problem repeated when it got cold again. I assumed the battery was bad and pulled a 1 year old maintenance free battery that was being used daily from my dad (same specs), and this has worked for the last 2 weeks until this morning when it was cold again. Just to clarify though, the battery being low would be the only cause of 14 secnds maximum cranking. So the culprit would be either the battery or the charging system?

Also by starting it on prime, I would only be masking the problem no?

thanks for the help

[rexazz2]

I never used the prime and imo you should be able to continue cranking

you need to check for a voltage drain ,I suspect that there is something draining the battery after you shut her down

Any chance you are turning the key to the "P" when getting off the bike because that would put on the tail light and third eye

here are a pile of threads to deal with starting and charging issues

http://katriders.com/vb/search.php?searchid=1597240

BTW if you do need a alternator you can usually get them rebuilt locally cheaper than a used unit

I run my bikes at below freezing temps and the only issue/complaint I ever had was slow warm up
I think the next will be a F.I bike

[KAT TOY]

put the fuel to prime and use the choke. after starting return to on pos.

just to clarify: using prime is to eliminate the gap in fuel line caused by sitting. I started mine this morning with my Walmart battery just fine. used the choke.

[Wild-Bill]

It's also possible you've got a corroded ground strap or battery connectors. That'd not only slow charging but also make it harder for the battery to crank the bike over. Try cleaning those and then follow the fat black cable down from the battery to the other end. Unbolt it, clean the cable terminal and attachment point and see what you get.

Doesn't cost a thing to do and who knows, it might be your whole problem.

[Kreylyn]

The most common issue with cold starts is due to a low power to the coils issue. This could be bad connections, bad/low battery, degraded wire/harness, or wiring mods that effect this issue. The overall general design for the harness OEM contributes to the issue on weathered and older bikes.

Simple tests...

Check the voltage at the coils with key on. (min reading 13.2v)

Check the voltage at the coils with starter turning the motor over. (minimal reading 10.5v)

If you past the first test, but not the second... then try the following.

Run 2 wires off the positive battery post directly to the orange wire connection on the coils under the tank.

Try to start the bike in the cold. Is there a difference?

If yes, it makes a big difference then ... you can clean and trace down the power loss issue to fix. Or, you can do the relay mod. I would suggest doing both personally... check out and clean any connections, try to remove the voltage drop issues, but I would still do the relay mod.

Krey

[donlon101]

just to clarify: using prime is to eliminate the gap in fuel line caused by sitting. I started mine this morning with my Walmart battery just fine. used the choke.

Thanks but the bike has not been sitting I used it 10 hours before since I drive it everyday. So I doubt theres a gap. And yes I used choke.

It's also possible you've got a corroded ground strap or battery connectors. That'd not only slow charging but also make it harder for the battery to crank the bike over. Try cleaning those and then follow the fat black cable down from the battery to the other end. Unbolt it, clean the cable terminal and attachment point and see what you get.

Doesn't cost a thing to do and who knows, it might be your whole problem.

With the couple battery switches I have done, I have already cleaned them, but yes that was my first guess.

I never used the prime and imo you should be able to continue cranking

you need to check for a voltage drain ,I suspect that there is something draining the battery after you shut her down

Any chance you are turning the key to the "P" when getting off the bike because that would put on the tail light and third eye

here are a pile of threads to deal with starting and charging issues

http://katriders.com/vb/search.php?searchid=1597240

BTW if you do need a alternator you can usually get them rebuilt locally cheaper than a used unit

I run my bikes at below freezing temps and the only issue/complaint I ever had was slow warm up
I think the next will be a F.I bike

The most common issue with cold starts is due to a low power to the coils issue. This could be bad connections, bad/low battery, degraded wire/harness, or wiring mods that effect this issue. The overall general design for the harness OEM contributes to the issue on weathered and older bikes.

Simple tests...

Check the voltage at the coils with key on. (min reading 13.2v)

Check the voltage at the coils with starter turning the motor over. (minimal reading 10.5v)

If you past the first test, but not the second... then try the following.

Run 2 wires off the positive battery post directly to the orange wire connection on the coils under the tank.

Try to start the bike in the cold. Is there a difference?

If yes, it makes a big difference then ... you can clean and trace down the power loss issue to fix. Or, you can do the relay mod. I would suggest doing both personally... check out and clean any connections, try to remove the voltage drop issues, but I would still do the relay mod.

Krey

It's not the park, as I did forget that once, and I came back to a fully drained bike (learned my lesson). The PO did install some LEDs, an aftermarket tail light, and a turn signal modulator. I disconnected the LEDS a month ago to rule them out, but maybe the other mods are tapping the system. The thing that makes it odd is that regardless of whether it has been sitting for 10 hours or a week it still has the same amount of battery (14 seconds crank) so I don't believe that it is leaking power. Would a wiring harness already have deteriorated for a 2005 garage kept bike? I will give the voltmeter tests a shot as soon as I get my hands on one to try and locate the issue.


Not sure if it helps diagnose, but for the 14 seconds the bike is cranking and I can hear it try to catch.

[Kreylyn]

Would a wiring harness already have deteriorated for a 2005 garage kept bike? I will give the voltmeter tests a shot as soon as I get my hands on one to try and locate the issue.


Not sure if it helps diagnose, but for the 14 seconds the bike is cranking and I can hear it try to catch.

Honestly, casual observation and anedotal information is much less helpful with out the test numbers to really tell us what is going on.

Krey

[donlon101]

The most common issue with cold starts is due to a low power to the coils issue. This could be bad connections, bad/low battery, degraded wire/harness, or wiring mods that effect this issue. The overall general design for the harness OEM contributes to the issue on weathered and older bikes.

Simple tests...

Check the voltage at the coils with key on. (min reading 13.2v)

Check the voltage at the coils with starter turning the motor over. (minimal reading 10.5v)

If you past the first test, but not the second... then try the following.

Run 2 wires off the positive battery post directly to the orange wire connection on the coils under the tank.

Try to start the bike in the cold. Is there a difference?

If yes, it makes a big difference then ... you can clean and trace down the power loss issue to fix. Or, you can do the relay mod. I would suggest doing both personally... check out and clean any connections, try to remove the voltage drop issues, but I would still do the relay mod.

Krey

Alright I finally got a hold of a voltmeter and it passed both of these tests without a hitch. However it does appear that the battery is completely drained everytime I charge it. How can I test if the battery is being charged?

[arsenic]

If it's dead after every time you charge, I think you just did test it. It failed.

[donlon101]

I worded that badly, I meant to say everytime I have to charge the battery (roughly every 3 weeks) I notice that the battery is completely drained. It is not drained after I charge it. Is there a way to test the charging system?

[Kreylyn]

I worded that badly, I meant to say everytime I have to charge the battery (roughly every 3 weeks) I notice that the battery is completely drained. It is not drained after I charge it. Is there a way to test the charging system?

Using the volt meter, check the voltage of the bike running at the battery. Check at 3500 rpms and at 6500rpms. You should see between 13-15v. If over 15 volts, your over charging and cooking the battery. If no change from just power on and the bike not running to running at those rpms listed... then your system isn't charging the battery at all.

If it passes both those tests... then you have a bad battery or a wiring problem that is draining the battery you have.

Just a note... if your battery is dying enough every 3 weeks to need an external charger, even if the battery wasn't bad... this has probably weakened it so that it won't keep the same output under load.

Krey

[donlon101]

Thanks Kreylyn,
At 3500 its just a little over 13 volts, and at 6500 its at about 13.4v, so I guess the charging system is working. I have tried 3 different batteries (2 new) with the same results, so I can narrow it down to a wiring issue? Is there any specific method to narrowing it down from here?