Question!?

[jiver06]

Okay. So I have been working on my 91 kat since winter winter started.
I have Adjusted the valve clearance, Changed the oil and adjusted the pre-load on the rear shock, I also adjusted the clutch plate friction zone.

Over New Year weekend I took the bike out and it was fine. The last day o had the bike out it tried to die on me and i just barely made home. I pulled the carbs cleaned the hell out of them and then Coated the tank to stop the rust from screwing me...put new in-line filters on, cleaned the petcock and re-assembled the bike. I went to start it today and it turned a couple times and then locked up. It was, crank, crank, crank....click! I tried again and same thing. Charged the battery came back and then it wouldn't turn at all. Just...Click!. So I instantly starting to think starter. I can hear it engage but nothing turns. I tried to compression start it or at least see what would happen if i tried. All that happened was the back tire locking up and slid.
I am really hoping this does not mean my engine just crapped out on me. Also I have fuel running out of my overflow tube but I'm pretty sure my carbs 1 & 2 floats are stuck open...I'll address that later.

If anyone has any ideas of what may be happening or have had this happen to them please help.

I plan on pulling the carbs "again" and fixing the leak problem. Also plan on pulling the valve cover to double check the valve status, and I was going to pull the starter and test that as well.

Please, please, please help. The engine has 12,500 miles on it...if its down and out I am 100% screwed.

Thank you everyone

[Mojoe]

before you go too far, take a strong arm and try to manually turn the engine over. I have seen folks do a lot of unnecessary work for something as little as the the dogs flipping over in the starter clutch. There was one member on here who tried a ton of things before I told him to access the starter clutch and turn the engine over in the proper rotation with a strong arm and a socket. He did it, and the bike fired right up. you will know if that was the problem because you will hear it snap pretty loud. don't let that scare you....it's normal. just make sure you turn it the right way. if you turn it the wrong way, it will make a loud snap as well.....but then you just have to turn it back the right way.

as for the tire locking up when you tried to jump start it, that often happens if you try to do it in 1st gear. ALWAYS use second gear. It's just easier on everything, including yourself so you don't get all winded pushing your bike. there is also a trick to doing that. you get the bike rolling while standing up, then plant you butt down hard on the seat as you release the clutch. it really does help.

but ya....before doing anything, try turning the engine over with a strong arm....or a ratchet with a pipe over the end. or just the ratchet if you have the muscle. if it doesn't turn over, you may have done something wrong during your valve adjustment. you know...make sure you didn't have a valve come loose and jam you up.

[jiver06]

That's a good point. I forgot all about that. I'm certified to work on cars and doing the whole crank the engine thing is a little harder in that application so maybe that might be a good place to start. Thanks. I'll give it a shot and keep you posted.

[rexazz2]

pull the plugs , bet you got a full cylinder of fuel "hydraulic lock "
I would do that before trying to strong arm the engine and doing damage

Chances are that the dirty carbs are flooding the engine, oil as well as the air box

[jiver06]

Well,

Hydo-lock is the winner. Air box was full of Fuel as well as the cylinders. I will use the compression to empty the cylinders and air dry the box and filter. I'm will go over the carbs again while they're off and double check everything. Hopefully this won't happen again. Thank you for all your help. I will update this post to let you know if I get it running.

[jiver06]

Review

Ok. So I was able to get the bike to run which is good. But now I'm having an idling issue. I will start the bike and It will idle up to about 4,000rpm and then drop to about 2,900rpms. The idle will stay there for a little bit and then start to die out and stall unless I blip the throttle and then it will raise back up to 4,000rpms and we go through the whole process again. Any ideas of what that might be. I cleaned the carbs real good and reset the Air/fuel screw again like I did last time so I don't think that could be a problem but If need be I will look into that again since that was the cause of my first idling problem. The carbs do need to be synced so I do run the rpms a little high around 2,500 - 2,900 do to it wanting to stall. But I ran it last year like that no problem. Please throw any ideas at me that you all may have. Thank you again for your support your all awesome.

[steves]

Erratic idle is usually caused by either vacuum leak, or carb synch.

[Kreylyn]

Ok. So I was able to get the bike to run which is good. But now I'm having an idling issue. I will start the bike and It will idle up to about 4,000rpm and then drop to about 2,900rpms. The idle will stay there for a little bit and then start to die out and stall unless I blip the throttle and then it will raise back up to 4,000rpms and we go through the whole process again. Any ideas of what that might be. I cleaned the carbs real good and reset the Air/fuel screw again like I did last time so I don't think that could be a problem but If need be I will look into that again since that was the cause of my first idling problem. The carbs do need to be synced so I do run the rpms a little high around 2,500 - 2,900 do to it wanting to stall. But I ran it last year like that no problem. Please throw any ideas at me that you all may have. Thank you again for your support your all awesome.

Hanging RPMs generally mean something is leaning the mixture out at idle. The A/F screw settings, air/vacuum leaks, etc...

The bike want's to stay running, so it accelerates the rpms to get enough fuel... thus the hanging idle.

Krey

[jiver06]

Thats true. I couldn't really see vacuum leak since there's really only one legit vacuum line and it runs to carbs 3 & 4. I sprayed starter fluid around all the boots and plugs before and had no idle change. I don't know...maybe I'll double check the air/fuel screws I think I turned the 1 3/4 turns out this time instead of 1 1/2 so maybe I'll reset them and then try and go from there. Thanks everyone for the help.

[Kreylyn]

Thats true. I couldn't really see vacuum leak since there's really only one legit vacuum line and it runs to carbs 3 & 4. I sprayed starter fluid around all the boots and plugs before and had no idle change. I don't know...maybe I'll double check the air/fuel screws I think I turned the 1 3/4 turns out this time instead of 1 1/2 so maybe I'll reset them and then try and go from there. Thanks everyone for the help.

Generally I would suggest starting at 2.5 turns out on the a/f screws from seated.

As for the air/vacuum leaks... this could be anywhere that rubber is supposed to seal off the entire air intake system... airbox, carbs, engine. Bad carb boot orings to the engine, cracked carb boots, mishapen carb boots, cracked vacuum port caps, cracked/mishapen airbox boots, over tightened boot clamps, cracked airbox, airbox drain line not plugged off, etc... I'm sure there are more things I didn't mention.

Krey

[Wild-Bill]

Go 2 1/2 turns out on the A/F screws and attach the airbox to the carbs before installing the carbs onto the engine. Oh, and bench-sync the carbs before putting them back on the bike, too. If the valves are set pretty consistently to each other that should get you really close to being synced.

[jiver06]

Yeah. The only reason I was setting them at 1 1/2 turns is because they were at 1 3/4 factory when I drilled out the brass caps. I didn't want to over exagerate the air/fuel mixture. I did bench sync them minus that carb 4 is way off from the rest I have to remove it from the rail to adjust it to the others. = will save up this summer and get the motionpro aux fuel tank and carb sync so I can to the sync properly and know my vacuum is correct. Money, money, money. Thanks everyone for the advice.

[Wild-Bill]

Yeah. The only reason I was setting them at 1 1/2 turns is because they were at 1 3/4 factory when I drilled out the brass caps. I didn't want to over exagerate the air/fuel mixture.

You went the wrong way. More turns out means richer. Fewer means leaner.

I did bench sync them minus that carb 4 is way off from the rest I have to remove it from the rail to adjust it to the others.

??!! What do you mean you have to remove #4 from the rail to adjust it? You shouldn't have to.

[steves]

The carbs are set lean from the factory.

IDK WHY you would have to remove #4 to do any adjusting.... yer doin it wrong.

[jiver06]

Haha, that was my mistake. I was thinking wrong...sorry that was my bad info.

I pulled the carbs and bench synced them and turned air/fuel out 2.5 turns. Runs more steady but now its idling too high around 3.5 - 4rpm. I turned them in about .25 of a turn and still running high around 3 - 3.25rpm. I might turn them in another .25 of a turn to try and bring them down to 2.5 - 3rpm. That would put me at 2 turns out, that's only .5 more than I started with at 1.5 turns out.