I have an issue, maybe I'm dumb?

[Brill]

I have an 05 Kat with about 12k miles on it.

I bought it a few months ago, it has a shorty drag pipe on it (which I hate, its effing loud and pops when I let off the throttle in gear).

It just recently started getting a little harder to start. Finally one day it took me almost 20 seconds of cranking to get the thing fired, I was getting fed up and decided to tear into it.

First, I found the fuel line kinked between the petcock and the filter, I replaced the line.

Then I after removing the filter I found where the previous owner has shoved a few paper towels inside the back part of the filter under the seat?!?!

Then after removing the air box, it had almost a quart of what looked like was gas, but was real dark? mixed with oil? I'm unsure.

I ended up changing the spark plugs, putting the gas tank back on and it started right up, I still had the air box off and noticed ALOT of what looks like and smells like gas pouring out of a hose so I shut the bike off and didn't have time to see if it would idle.

I'm not sure what this is or what's going on, I hope you guys can help =/

The hose with the arrows is where the gas stuff was coming from (which that end hooks to the air box, which I'm assuming is how all that crud is getting in there).
I unbolted the circled piece, moved it over and cranked the bike over. Without the tank on I'm guessing the bike had enough gas in the carbs to idle for a minute.

I let the bike idle with that cover thing off and about another half quart ended up bubbling up and pouring out of that hole.

I'm under the impression that's a valve cover that covers the camshafts, which I have no idea why that would be doing this.

Do you think I got gas in the oil somehow and it's thinned? (I'm draining the oil in the morning to see).

I'm assuming its just supposed to be a vent tube going to the air box but now I'm confused..

Thanks guys..

[Astro4x4]

You have a float stuck on one or more carbs and the petcock gets left on prime and you have filled the crankcase with gas. The stuck floats are also filling your cylinders will gas which = hard to start and hard to crank. Between the over full crankcase and the gas diluting the oil you are getting crap pushed out the crankcase vent, and / or you have a bunch of "blow by" due to wear or abuse.
Change oil right away, DO NOT RUN IT again until oil is well drained and changed.

Oh, and welcome to KR.

[Brill]

Ha, now I feel dumb =/

I'm going to drain the case tomorrow, now I can't remember if left the petcock on prime or not..

I'm guessing I would need to pull the bowls on the carbs and clean with some B12? I'm downloading a .pdf service book for the bike now.

Oh, and thanks =) I'll be sticking around here for a while!

[Slofuze]

You have a float stuck on one or more carbs and the petcock gets left on prime and you have filled the crankcase with gas. The stuck floats are also filling your cylinders will gas which = hard to start and hard to crank. Between the over full crankcase and the gas diluting the oil you are getting crap pushed out the crankcase vent, and / or you have a bunch of "blow by" due to wear or abuse.
Change oil right away, DO NOT RUN IT again until oil is well drained and changed.

Oh, and welcome to KR.

+1

[roadracer127]

My brothers Katana had the same thing happen to him. It was a stuck float in number 2 carb and the previous owner had left it on prime with a full tank for 2 years in his garage. After fresh oil and clean carbs. it runs like a top.

[Brill]

So just pulling the carbs and cleaning the bowls should do the trick?

[cmurdah]

might as well clean it all while you have it apart. there is a great write up on how to do it on the site. carbs 101 if you have a pre (pre-98) or carbs 102 for post (98-post) kats. if you feel comfortable tearing into carbs, might as well clean it all. the jets are supposed to get clogged real easy.

in case yours isnt labeled, as you said you're not sure if it was on prime, the petcock is labeled with reserve towards the front of the bike, on is facing down, and prime is to the rear.

[newbouldg]

KR saves the day again!! Welcome

[Brill]

I've been messing with this for the better part of the day.

Drained all the oil/gas out of the crank case then pulled the carbs off.

I didn't have a computer near me for refrence so I ended up pulling things apart by memory, cleaned all the bowls out with carb cleaner, every one of them had sludge or what looks like mud in the bottom of them. Enough crud that I couldn't drain the bowls with the screws.

Cleaned the bowls, pulled the 3 jets I could see, soaked and cleaned them good (they all had that crud up in them). Flipped the cabrs over and pulled the diaphrams and slider needle piece. Everything looked good so far, nothing loose or out of whack.

Pulled the floats and cleaned the needles and float arms.

While it was all apart I sprayed carb cleaner in what little holes and ports I could see.

Got it all put back together and it fired right up but would not rev past 5k and ran really rough. I checked the pipes and the #1 and #2 cylinder wasnt firing. Checked spark and things were good so I'm assuming there's parts of the carbs I missed. I was able to open the drain screws on the bowls of the 2 that were not firing and fuel was atleast making it to the bowls.

I'm pretty mechanically inclined and would hate to take these to a shop to have rebuilt.

Tomorrow I'm going to tear things down as far as I can get and soak the rest in cleaner I suppose.

[Astro4x4]

WOW !!! If you had that much crap in them, I say do a full tear down and rebuild, soaking the carbs overnight and blowing them out with compressed air. Keep the carb cleaner away from rubber bits as it will swell them bad. (if it's the good carb cleaner)
You definitely have that crud all up in the carb passages blocking things up for ya.
Also check your fuel tank for rust inside.

[DHolzwarth]

WOW !!! If you had that much crap in them, I say do a full tear down and rebuild, soaking the carbs overnight and blowing them out with compressed air. Keep the carb cleaner away from rubber bits as it will swell them bad. (if it's the good carb cleaner)
You definitely have that crud all up in the carb passages blocking things up for ya.
Also check your fuel tank for rust inside.

+1 Both on the dip clean AND the fuel tank inspection. Drain your gas into something safe, pull the filler cap AND the petcock, inspect carefully.

If neither one or two are firing, there is a chance the vent hose for carb 1 and 2 float bowls is kinked, pinched, blocked somehow. If so, you may have gas in the air box again.

The three jets you could see....so, I am guessing you got the main, the pilot, and the air jet and missed the needle jet emulsion tube? If your needles had gunk on them, the emulsion tubes are gunked up too. You definitely need to clean those.

But in the long run, what you probably should do is commit to stripping the carbs and doing a dip clean - METAL PARTS ONLY. One full day per carb, two is better.

Order all the rubber parts for the carbs now except for the big O-ring for the emulsion tube block. (See carbs 101.)

While you are at it....order a new valve cover seal now, so you can adjust the valves. You've got all that stuff off the top of the engine anyway, and could probably still kill more time while waiting for parts to arrive.

"Been there, done that. There's no T-shirt." Good luck to you.

[Wild-Bill]

It looks like your AF screws are still in there, under the EPA plugs. Take a look in that .pdf manual, grab a sheet metal screw, 1/8" drill and a pair of pliers and head back out to the garage to pull those plugs and get the screws out of there. There's a spring, washer and o-ring under each of the AF screws so don't forget them. The other item I don't see out of your carbs is the jet block. It's the plastic block that goes through the center of the carbs from top to bottom. It holds the emulsion tube and you'll need to thread a bowl screw into where the main jet was and give the screw a whack to knock the tubes loose. Should be able to pull the block out by hand after that. While you've got the carbs apart for cleaning you might want to replace all the o-rings. They do wear out.

[buffalobill]

To much advise…

Brill, I know where you're engine knowledge level is at (I been there). You need to do some study and understand how engines work before you can make good judgments.
Best of luck!
Bill
See this guy's site for GOOD tips. http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm

[Wild-Bill]

+1
first step to accurate troubleshooting is to know how the durn thing works! dansmc is pretty good reading.

[akarob]

Make sure the seats of the float needle valves get cleaned. The pilot circut emulsion tubes are the most sensitive. I always recommend a .020" wire for those holes because that is what worked for me - the ONLY thinng that worked. Soaking in solution for a few days may have worked, I dunno.

Those carbs are fickle and don't tolerate a lot of dirt at all. Even if you can spray cleaner or see through a hole - doesn't mean it's clean.

Oh, and open pipe exhaust? Seriously? Glad you're not my neighbor.