[streebs93]

It seems, based on this thread, that the tables have turned on arsenic. K&N DOES WORK!!:mrgreen:

[loudnlow7484]

Ok, since there have never been enough K&N filter debates, I'll throw my hat into the ring......

Keep in mind, this is my own personal truth, and you should all find out what yours is as well. (What is truth? How can we tell the validity of this thing they call truth? A topic for another discussion)

K&N filters do two things more than a standard air filter. They flow more air, and they let through more dirt. This is a tradeoff you need to consider before making the decision to use them. Is the power possibly gained worth it, at the expense of more frequent carb cleanings, and possibly a shorter engine life? Only you can make that call.

Now the question of the hour, do they work? The answer is directly tied to your mechanical ability. It's time to be honest with yourself...... for 95% of you reading this, it's probably wise to walk away from it. A simple dynojet kit and playing with needle position likely won't make it work. Maybe you will have to drill holes in the bottom of your slides. Maybe you'll have to epoxy those holes shut again. Maybe you'll have to cut your slide springs, and maybe you'll have to buy new ones if you cut them too short. You may have to adjust your float height. Be honest, are you prepared for this? How many hours do you really want to spend on this? And are you capable of feeling out flat spots in your fueling, and making corrections based on the feel? It's YOUR motorcycle, and you are free to do as you wish...... All advice is generally here to help you make the best decision for yourself.

So be honest with yourself, and develop your own truth about this.

[scottynoface]

Why won't the K&N threads just die...

[arsenic]

Why won't the K&N threads just die...

trolls

I know numerous pre- and post-98 Katanas with K&N (dual pods) they all run better than stock, makes me wonder.....

Nonetheless they work fine on dad's kitten too.

your dads engine was modded 8 ways from Sunday.

[GytRDunKat]

Now the question of the hour, do they work? The answer is directly tied to your mechanical ability.

I think this is why Chris always says no to K&N, because 95% of folks aren't going to have the aptitude. He could just say Yes, you can get them, but there's a 95% chance that your not good enough to make them work.

Let's not forget, the european motors are different, so tuning K&N's is different.

[arsenic]

It seems, based on this thread, that the tables have turned on arsenic. K&N DOES WORK!!:mrgreen:

if you think K&N is fine USE IT!! I tell you what works, if you think you're smarter then the engineers who designed it be my guest, I don't give a ****.

[tone]

Ok, since there have never been enough K&N filter debates, I'll throw my hat into the ring......

Keep in mind, this is my own personal truth, and you should all find out what yours is as well. (What is truth? How can we tell the validity of this thing they call truth? A topic for another discussion)

K&N filters do two things more than a standard air filter. They flow more air, and they let through more dirt. This is a tradeoff you need to consider before making the decision to use them. Is the power possibly gained worth it, at the expense of more frequent carb cleanings, and possibly a shorter engine life? Only you can make that call.

Now the question of the hour, do they work? The answer is directly tied to your mechanical ability. It's time to be honest with yourself...... for 95% of you reading this, it's probably wise to walk away from it. A simple dynojet kit and playing with needle position likely won't make it work. Maybe you will have to drill holes in the bottom of your slides. Maybe you'll have to epoxy those holes shut again. Maybe you'll have to cut your slide springs, and maybe you'll have to buy new ones if you cut them too short. You may have to adjust your float height. Be honest, are you prepared for this? How many hours do you really want to spend on this? And are you capable of feeling out flat spots in your fueling, and making corrections based on the feel? It's YOUR motorcycle, and you are free to do as you wish...... All advice is generally here to help you make the best decision for yourself.

So be honest with yourself, and develop your own truth about this.

good post loudnlow very true
The shorter more direct version is some people can do the required work & some cant but unfortuantely it seems those that cant shout the loudest

[hardlydangerous]

Regardles if it can be tuned or not, it still not any good for the engine in that raw form. You will NEVER find just a cotton type filter on a street or off road bike for a reason. The MFGs know it will shorten the life of the engine. You want clean air in the engine, not air without big chunks.
By the time you add a foam oiled pre-filter or outterwear you have reduced the airflow and are basically worse off then stock. But at least its clean air.

I have personally seen many bikes and atvs with K&N and have never found one yet that did not have dust build up in the intake after a year or two of use regardless how often they clean the filter. In the worst cases where they were used off road the pistons and valves look like they were sandblasted and compression is greatly reduced.

Imo the 1 or 2 extra HP is not worth the hours it takes to dial in proper jetting or the premature engine wear. You can easily gain an extra couple HP without switching to a filter that will evntually damage the engine.

[arsenic]

there's someone that DID NOT graduate from MMI. If you did Hardly, it dosen't show and I'll have to rethink my view on that school.

[tone]

Regardles if it can be tuned or not, it still not any good for the engine in that raw form. You will NEVER find just a cotton type filter on a street or off road bike for a reason. The MFGs know it will shorten the life of the engine. You want clean air in the engine, not air without big chunks.
By the time you add a foam oiled pre-filter or outterwear you have reduced the airflow and are basically worse off then stock. But at least its clean air.

I have personally seen many bikes and atvs with K&N and have never found one yet that did not have dust build up in the intake after a year or two of use regardless how often they clean the filter. In the worst cases where they were used off road the pistons and valves look like they were sandblasted and compression is greatly reduced.

Imo the 1 or 2 extra HP is not worth the hours it takes to dial in proper jetting or the premature engine wear. You can easily gain an extra couple HP without switching to a filter that will evntually damage the engine.

First let me say i do respect your opinion & your right to hold that opinion because you posts & responses are reasoned & born from experiance
It seems that we are finally having a sensible conversation on the matter of K&N's so i'll reply in a similar manner, hopefully you will understand my response & take it in the manner its intended

I disagree with SOME or your post because the theory stated does not hold up imo
You say that once these filters are oiled airflow is reduced & we are worse off than stock so why would we need to add more fuel to compensate if this were the case ?

You say that the 1 or 2 hp gained is not worth the hassle, those of us that do the job regularly gain 5-7hp but even if it was only 2 hp mentioned its a gain for little money & the torque curve increases too which is far more usefull than outright hp imo, again this comes from being able to get more air in & hence more fuel

I agree you may get more engine wear from dirt ingress on badly maintained filters but dust sitting in the intake, which i take to mean engine side of the filters simply wont happen in the way you suggest, further to that in a dusty enviroment anyone with the required knowlage should use either foam filters or k&n's with a sock, myself & many friends have run for thousands of hard miles & not one of our engines looks "sandblasted" & compression stays in line with a well looked after but occasionally thrashed engine

Please note these comments are purely intended to apply to oil cooled suzuki's & i believe remarking on any other vehicle just confuses the matter
Thanks for reading
tone

[scottynoface]

Imo the 1 or 2 extra HP is not worth the hours it takes to dial in proper jetting or the premature engine wear. You can easily gain an extra couple HP without switching to a filter that will evntually damage the engine.

Wooooo!!!!

[tone]

Wooooo!!!!

Well there goes the sensible part

[hardlydangerous]

First let me say i do respect your opinion & your right to hold that opinion because you posts & responses are reasoned & born from experiance
It seems that we are finally having a sensible conversation on the matter of K&N's so i'll reply in a similar manner, hopefully you will understand my response & take it in the manner its intended

I disagree with SOME or your post because the theory stated does not hold up imo
You say that once these filters are oiled airflow is reduced & we are worse off than stock so why would we need to add more fuel to compensate if this were the case ?

You say that the 1 or 2 hp gained is not worth the hassle, those of us that do the job regularly gain 5-7hp but even if it was only 2 hp mentioned its a gain for little money & the torque curve increases too which is far more usefull than outright hp imo, again this comes from being able to get more air in & hence more fuel

I agree you may get more engine wear from dirt ingress on badly maintained filters but dust sitting in the intake, which i take to mean engine side of the filters simply wont happen in the way you suggest, further to that in a dusty enviroment anyone with the required knowlage should use either foam filters or k&n's with a sock, myself & many friends have run for thousands of hard miles & not one of our engines looks "sandblasted" & compression stays in line with a well looked after but occasionally thrashed engine

Please note these comments are purely intended to apply to oil cooled suzuki's & i believe remarking on any other vehicle just confuses the matter
Thanks for reading
tone

I said
"By the time you add a foam oiled pre-filter or outterwear you have reduced the airflow and are basically worse off then stock. But at least its clean air."

I know a K&N flows more air but they flow more dirt.

Its when you add the foam pre-filter on top of the K&N that the airflow is restricted basically that of a stock set up. maybe slightly more air,, but not much, thats when you get the 1-2 hp .
I ran this very set up on my Ex's ZZR (2 into 1 K&N) with a 1/4 " thick hi filtration hi flow foam pre-filter over it. I ran it with the stock jetting.

K&N even recommends an oil foam pre filter for dusty conditions for a reason.

dust gets into the intake past the filter, some is stuck to the walls of the intake and boots because they are tacky from the filter oil, the rest is sucked into the engine. I have rebuilt offroad and MX bikes and sport ATV's that were running K&N and the amount of dirt in the intake and carb is crazy. And i have seen some serious engine damage

This is a piston from one of my customers bikes.
He rebuilt this engine 2 times and could not figure out why he was only getting a month or so out of his top ends before the compression started dropping out.
He finally brough the engine to me and this is what his piston looked like.
The rings are badly worn only on the intake side, and it looks like someone sandblasted the the intake side of the piston. There is a couple very very fine scores that are caused from larger particals possibly sand... the rest of the piston is flawless with no signs of wear.
inside the intake and carb were covered with dust and super fine sand.
Since he switched the K&N to a TwinAir foam filter he's not had a single problem and the intake and carb remains spotless








the bottom pic is from a Yamaha Seca running K&N pods
you can see on the inside area around the intake valve cut away a thin line across the dome that looks like it was snad blasted
That from dust and dirt.

[tone]

Sorry but again you are posting about non suzuki's on a suzuki forum which i'll ignore for the time being

From the pics i would agree that some of the pistons shown have suffered from the ingress of dirt or dust imo this is due to poor filter maintainance rather than any fault with the filters themselves, ive also see pistons in the same condition from bikes run solely on oem filters so again the theroy does not really hold up

For referance i will post pics of 750f pistons removed from a bike 3 weeks ago, this bike had been run on individual k&n filters for a minimum of 30,000 miles to my knowlage & very probably more than that, they show none of the signs of wear shown above

cheers tone

[scottynoface]

Well there goes the sensible part

I don't know or care about the effects of a K&N filter, I just shock the bulls before the fight

Oh and if you REALLY wanna be a douche-nozzle that claims massive power gains, try one of these, they pretty much double your peak horsepower from what I hear

Everybody gets so worked up over air filters...