Camless Engine

[philwecksr]

I'm making a camless engine.

Now, everybody take note of the syntax of that sentence. I am committed to this project. Questions like "Why", or "Thats stupid shut up", or "What a waste of time/money" do not phase me I'm happy to answer them, but you will not dissuade me. I'm not looking for basic guidance like "what kind of work do you think this will take?" or "Will this let me fit a bigger tire". Its my project, if you don't like it, back off...

So...

Now I am looking for more in depth guidance on this stuff.

1) I'm planning on using solenoids to push-pull the valves in the cylinder. I'm in search of a 12 VDC Push-Pull solenoid that is suitable for use in oil. The solenoid will have to be somewhat compact to fit under the stock valve cover. Anybody know of a supplier?

2) When the engine is running, how is the oil flowing through the head? Is it just a flow over the valves or does the entire head fill with oil? Is it under pressure? Any idea how much?

3) I'm starting out pretty basic and rudementary and I might get more detailed as time goes on. Since the kat has a defined cam form, it would stand to reason that a given valve opens the same amount regardless of rpm, so the solenoid will only have to push it open that far. Is that accurate?

I might start trying to fool around with amount of opening and the timing and whatnot if this ever comes to fruition, but for now we're going to try and closely mimic the stock valve travel.

Oooof, what have I gotten myself into...

[limeliteauto]

Wow, Sounds Like You Have A Lot Of Engineering On Your Hands Now!

[philwecksr]

I'm a Mech. E, this is what I do...

[arsenic]

why? thats stupid shut up

[limeliteauto]

How Are You Going To Time It? I Would Say With A Simple Oscillator Circuit? Or Are You Going To Go Advanced And Go Full Microprocessor And All Of That Jive?

[philwecksr]

Probably a full microprocessor. I'd like to get to the point where there are sensors and it is capable of handling different loading conditions, account for RPM, maybe even a HP vs MPG setting...

[limeliteauto]

The First Kat With A Hard Drive? Hell Yeah!

[Black_peter]

OK,
First off due to the room available I suspect you won't find a solenoid with the speed and duty cycle that will fit under the valve cover so forget about worrying about oil. You're just going to have to run the shaft through the valve cover.
Next. How are you going to cool the solenoids?
Third, have you found a solenoid capable of operating at 200Htz? If so can you really afford 8 of them?
Fourth, The valve is meant to open the same distance across the RPM range. I believe there are retainers to keep it from over traveling too much.
Fifth, Valves are not meant to be binary. Beyond the need for "soft" attack and decay on the cam because it is a reciprocating mass the curve is critical to the timing. I'm not sure you can replicate that with a straight solenoid.

I'm not trying to shoot down the idea. Just helping you with information gathering!

[zspencer]

Just curious, not slamming, but what is the point of a camless engine? I'm not up on all the different varieties of ways things can work.

[Dan Dubeau]

Were you planning on direct actuation, or indirect, as in the use of a rocker arm. By using a rocker arm you could build in the actuation curve that BP is talking about. That would also alow you to locate the solinoids outside of the valve cover away from oil, heat, etc. Sealing might be tricky, but it's probably far from the main worry at this point.

Interesting project for sure. Keep us updated

[Rothman]

Just curious, not slamming, but what is the point of a camless engine? I'm not up on all the different varieties of ways things can work.

Well I've heard of auto manufacturers trying to implement this typse of system into cars. Basically if I remember rigth the point is to reduce rotating mass and to make the valve train more reliable as far as less mechanical parts to break. Also It has huge benefits for performance. You can basically tune it to emulate any cam you want. Lift, duration, overlap.... the possiblilities are endless.

[plupien79]

With all the work it's going to be might as well add fuel injection to the mix as well.

[warpuck]

camless

try parker-hannifin they may make oil cooled solenoids. maybe avionic hydraulic company may sell some, if they can sell and if they are not classified.
switching the solenoid dc to ac and back will probably be the biggest challenge.

[tzortn]

3) I'm starting out pretty basic and rudementary and I might get more detailed as time goes on. Since the kat has a defined cam form, it would stand to reason that a given valve opens the same amount regardless of rpm, so the solenoid will only have to push it open that far. Is that accurate?

No, that is not accurate across the entire RPM range. At higher speeds a valve can be thrown off of the cam lobe. We actually measured this happening in our NASCAR engines. I would not be surprised that at 10K RPM you saw significant additional effective valve lift due to this. The amount of additional lift is dependent on the ramp of the cam lobe. A steep ramp will develop higher momentums and increased throw.

Fifth, Valves are not meant to be binary. Beyond the need for "soft" attack and decay on the cam because it is a reciprocating mass the curve is critical to the timing. I'm not sure you can replicate that with a straight solenoid.

I am not sure if that is true. Cam profiles are developed based on the use and durability required from the engine. our cam designer used to brag about the "best camshaft that [he] ever designed" only lasting for 15 seconds. Is is horrible for a road car but just enough for a top fuel dragster. You want to open your valves as quickly as possible to get the maximum charge that you can get into the engine. The problem is that if your cam lobe become too steep the valve can be difficult to control. We developed custom valve spring profiles to help us control the valve. Unfortunately the high spring rates would put additional stress on the rockers and cams and break them. So we would redesign the rockers and cams so they could take the spring pressure. Once that was fixed we would up the valve speeds requiring higher spring rate, which would break rockers and cams etc...

You may want to check out "Theory and Practice of Cylinder Head Modification" by Dave Vizard. You may find it helpful.

[thetable]

Wouldn't it just be easier to pick up an RE5 or a Norton Commander? Need for solenoid completely eliminated!!!