Brake lever travel.......version TWO.......

[ctandc]

Okay...

Bike is my 91 Kat 600 (w/ 750 swap...just had to add that LOL).

-Stock calipers rebuilt
- HEL 2 line setup (eliminates splitter)
- Master cylinder off LOW Mile 06 Kat


The drama starts HERE

http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=80360&highlight=HEL%2A

Continues HERE

http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=80497&highlight=HEL%2A&page=4

Okay...

So sue me, I got busy. I also got used to the brake lever travel. Never did try to install that master cylinder I bought. Brakes worked FINE, just a bit more travel that I would expect.

Then talked with HS2020 and figured out that I was missing the crush washers that go where the brakes lines bolt into the calipers. So I ordered those...

And again MONTHS later here we go...

Finally decided to tear into this....

Popped the master cylinder cover..and it's low on fluid. WHAT???

Brakes have been working fine..just alot of front lever travel.

So I pop open a speedbleeder and flush all the fluid out.

Go to install my new master cylinder...and it the bracket that holds the brake lever is too small (width) to accept my adjustable brake lever. I would need to use the non-adjustable lever that came with the master cylinder...not thanks.

So I pop the lines off the master cylinder, pop the lines off the calipers and install new crush washers on the calipers (1 each caliper) and (3) new ones where the lines and banjo bolt go in the master cylinder.

So I bleed...........use my Vaccum pump. Try everything every suggested...and the lever travel is still the same.

Then I noticed brake fluid "Seeping" (Only under pressure when working the brake lever) from where the HEL lines enter the calipers.

Crank down on the fittings even more (to the point I'm afraid I'm going to strip them or round the fittings on the lines).

Blleed again....


Same deal.....GOOD brakes. Just alot of lever travel.


Someone save me from myself.................

PLEASE

[Tmod]

What do you consider alot of travel?

Since you have a pre the master cylinder piston diameter was 5/8" and now with a 06 Kat master cylinder you are down to a 14mm piston. The 14mm piston will give you a little more lever travel but will also give you more line pressure so less lever effort would be required.

Tmod

[GytRDunKat]

Uhm, I went through gallons of brake fluid after the zx10 lever/reservoir install... Keep pumpin dude (also have HEL's). From what I gather a vacuum pump won't help if you have speed bleeders like me. Pump pump pump! I was done pumping, then like 45 minutes later, still saw air coming out. I'm no expert though, but I could do a stoppie now if it weren't for the tire slipping, which I've experienced... no fun.

As for lever travel, I think I know what you mean, I could smash it to my knuckles by 2 finger braking. I pull my fingers out, and it would go to the throttle tube.. Now, I blow on the lever and I'm going end over end.

[ctandc]

What do you consider alot of travel?

Since you have a pre the master cylinder piston diameter was 5/8" and now with a 06 Kat master cylinder you are down to a 14mm piston. The 14mm piston will give you a little more lever travel but will also give you more line pressure so less lever effort would be required.

Tmod

That's a new one on me.........hmm...like I said, brakes work VERY Well. I'm just comparing to an almost new Kat with stock brakes...it had alot less lever travel than I do now. Also to my old GS500E that had braided lines, stock everything else...it also had very little level travel compared to mine.

Uhm, I went through gallons of brake fluid after the zx10 lever/reservoir install... Keep pumpin dude (also have HEL's). From what I gather a vacuum pump won't help if you have speed bleeders like me. Pump pump pump! I was done pumping, then like 45 minutes later, still saw air coming out. I'm no expert though, but I could do a stoppie now if it weren't for the tire slipping, which I've experienced... no fun.

As for lever travel, I think I know what you mean, I could smash it to my knuckles by 2 finger braking. I pull my fingers out, and it would go to the throttle tube.. Now, I blow on the lever and I'm going end over end.

Well normally I cover the brake when riding...so normally it's two fingers on the lever. Never have trouble braking (fast or normal, brakes work very well) but I don't think I could touch my fingers...or at least I have never had to brake THAT hard.

I'll take a video of the travel this week and post it to Youtube and link it.

[steves]

Did you try tying the lever off, and leaving the cap loose?

[ctandc]

Did you try tying the lever off, and leaving the cap loose?

No I didn't this go round...tried that before though...

[steves]

There also exists the possibility that there is a problem with the line or lines themselves.

My rear brake line with the HEL doesn't seem to hold a bleed... I need to take it off and send it in.

[ctandc]

Well I'm ordering this

http://www.targa-acc.com/cgi-bin/products.cgi?name=upc_code&value=11-993-31S&format=3

And I'm going to order a master cylinder rebuild kit as well....

I'll let everyone know how I make out.

[md86]

Interesting ......

[Bright Wire]

The crush washers from the line to the caliper should be 2. There should be 1 from banjo head to line head and then 1 from line head to caliper. You said you only used one from line head to caliper.

Also, Harbor freight has a pneumatic brake bleeder for $30. Get that and give it a go.

[HS2020]

I tell you it is the speed bleeders. I have installed about 6 sets of these lines. All with bikes without speedbleeders on the them. The travel is less than stock. Man I wish I could fly up there and take care of this. I would remove the speed bleeders and try it out those after the M/C Rebuild.

[Kfreak]

Can I ask a dumb question? I'm going to anyway. Since the hoses on a bike are short, why would you need a vacuum bleeder? Can't you just remove the speed bleeder and replace it with a stock one, then fit the bleeder with a piece of vacuum hose and stick it into a container of brake fluid, open the bleeder, and pump? Making sure you don't drain the reservoir? That is the same method I use to bleed all of my vehicles.

[loudnlow7484]

Can I ask a dumb question? I'm going to anyway. Since the hoses on a bike are short, why would you need a vacuum bleeder? Can't you just remove the speed bleeder and replace it with a stock one, then fit the bleeder with a piece of vacuum hose and stick it into a container of brake fluid, open the bleeder, and pump? Making sure you don't drain the reservoir? That is the same method I use to bleed all of my vehicles.

Same here.... I dunno about all this fancy brake-bleeding equipment.....

[Kfreak]

I am one for gadgets but that method for brakes is about the simplest. I did throw a brake bleeder away because it ****ed me off.

[ctandc]

What do you consider alot of travel?

Since you have a pre the master cylinder piston diameter was 5/8" and now with a 06 Kat master cylinder you are down to a 14mm piston. The 14mm piston will give you a little more lever travel but will also give you more line pressure so less lever effort would be required.

Tmod

I did some research on this...

Suzuki lists the same part # for the front master cylinder rebuild kit for the 91 600 and the 06 600....

The crush washers from the line to the caliper should be 2. There should be 1 from banjo head to line head and then 1 from line head to caliper. You said you only used one from line head to caliper.

Also, Harbor freight has a pneumatic brake bleeder for $30. Get that and give it a go.

Except in this case, the lines that go into the calipers don't have the 'open' fittings (where you would put a crush washer on each side) they just have a fitting that screws in...

Here's a pic of the HEL line entering the caliper



And I have a mity mac brake bleeder...

I tell you it is the speed bleeders. I have installed about 6 sets of these lines. All with bikes without speedbleeders on the them. The travel is less than stock. Man I wish I could fly up there and take care of this. I would remove the speed bleeders and try it out those after the M/C Rebuild.

Don't sweat it, I'll get it figured out. I just can't see how it could be the speedbleeders...I've used them on pretty much every project vehicle I've worked on in the last 10 years or so..

I do have a the front calipers from the 2001 Kat 750...Just for grins I may try pulling those stock bleeders and installing them in my calipers and giving it a run. It's going to be cold this week, so I might give it a shot.