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Oil advice for Katana 750

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  • #31
    Originally posted by The CyberPoet
    Originally posted by FloridaKat
    Both websites you show have the Act-Evo VTwin is a synthetic based oil (not a full synthetic). Perhaps you interpreted that Act-Evo VTwin is a full synthetic? A synthetic based oil is only partially synthetic (~30%).
    I was under the belief that since the FTC/court decision concerning the definition of "synthetic" in the phrase "synthetic motor oils" in the USA, it was impossible to tell if a synthetic was dino-based synthetic (filtration/chemical-recombination synthetic) or fully carbon-atom-upwards synthetic (ground-up synthetic), and both qualified as long as the effective chemical structure results (synthetic = not occurring in nature) were identical (i.e. that the oil molecules had an uniform homogeneous chain length at outset without any shorter/longer chains in the mix).

    Or maybe I'm just tired (did party heavy last night with the college students next door) and not thinking real straight...

    Cheers,
    =-= The CyberPoet
    I’m wondering why the oil manufacturers would even put "semi" or "synthetic based" in the marketing of their products (labels, websites, etc.)? I assume they could just list their oils as fully synthetic, reap the benefits of huge sales and still comply. Weird.

    It should be possible to discern the difference between a dino-based synthetic vs. a polyalpha-olefins (a.k.a. ground up synthetic) via a SEM or perhaps TEM image. The carbon chains would be different in the sub-atomic structures (diameter, lengths, resistivity, continuity, etc.) unless the processing of the two products migrates into a single-homogenous chain (in which case there would be no need for a fully synthetic oil).

    Synthetic oils made from organic compounds (or synthetic hydrocarbons) re-arrange the atomic structures so all molecules are uniform in size, shape and weight, and as you pointed out, it does not occur naturally. Almost all synthetic motor oils are fabricated by polymerizing short chain hydrocarbon molecules into longer chain hydrocarbon polymers (you can even modify the oil's characteristics by inputting different molecular weights into the final formula).

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    • #32
      I'm in Australia and Mobil here lists their Mobil 1 Racing 4T as API SJ & JASO MA spec. (SH for the 15W50) which suggests to me that it is a different product to the US version and possibly not suitable for my '02 750 Kat.
      Castrol GPS exists here but is proving hard to find.

      Does anyone have experience with how the Motul oils compare to these products?

      Motul here offer a fully synthetic 300V 4T Sport (10W40) & 300V 4T Competition (15W50) (API SG & JASO T904) which are readily available and have a good reputation
      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
      -Albert Einstein

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      • #33
        Originally posted by FloridaKat
        I’m wondering why the oil manufacturers would even put "semi" or "synthetic based" in the marketing of their products (labels, websites, etc.)? I assume they could just list their oils as fully synthetic, reap the benefits of huge sales and still comply. Weird.
        My suspicion is that it actually involves marketing into all of North America (NAFTA) with the same products, and thus not being able to pull the wool over the Canadians' eyes the same way (this is strictly a guess, but one that would satisfy all the circumstances).

        Originally posted by Redshift
        I'm in Australia and Mobil here lists their Mobil 1 Racing 4T as API SJ & JASO MA spec. (SH for the 15W50) which suggests to me that it is a different product to the US version and possibly not suitable for my '02 750 Kat.
        All the major oil companies formulate differently for different continents, including using base stocks from different sources (most likely the base stocks for Australia came out of the SE Asian basin, while most of the US oil stocks comes out of Canada & Venezuela). Unfortunately, most of the oil coming out of the Americas is very high in sulfer, unlike the sweet crudes in most other locations on the planet, so a lot of post-processing is used by most motorcycle oil manufacturers to the US market to get their product down to the sulfated ash content required for the JASO-MA spec.

        Cheers,
        =-= The CyberPoet
        Remember The CyberPoet

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Redshift
          I'm in Australia and Mobil here lists their Mobil 1 Racing 4T as API SJ & JASO MA spec. (SH for the 15W50) which suggests to me that it is a different product to the
          After speaking directly with a Mobil representative, only the name changed from Mobil 1 MX4T to Mobil 1 Racing 4T (he confirmed there was no change in formulation).

          It is currently available in the US (I've seen it on the shelf of a Wal-Mart for $8.19/qt.). I firmly believe that this is the best oil currently available for my Kat (based on an extensive review of the MSDS and testing specifications); it should be an excellent choice for your Kat.

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          • #35
            As far as going full synthetic, my dealership said I shoudn't run it untill 2000 mi's. He said it could scorch the cylinders.

            Is this due to the metals not being broken in yet and the higher temps that full-syntheic can take before breaking down being transferred to the metals?

            D
            Foolish men search the earth for worldly masters, not realizing that their own mind is the master.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by FloridaKat
              After speaking directly with a Mobil representative, only the name changed from Mobil 1 MX4T to Mobil 1 Racing 4T (he confirmed there was no change in formulation).
              The Australian formulation is differently weighted, among other things. Given their climate compared to most of ours, it makes perfect sense.
              I know Castrol formulates differently for US/Europe/Australia as well, although all of their MC formulations are tested in their UK robo-MC rig.
              Old article on the Robo-MC test rig
              ** The current bike on their robo-MC rig is a VFR800. The rig is designed to be able to use virtually any road-going motorcycle as a plug-in part of the rig.

              Cheers,
              =-= The CyberPoet
              Remember The CyberPoet

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Drastion
                As far as going full synthetic, my dealership said I shoudn't run it untill 2000 mi's. He said it could scorch the cylinders.
                In theory, as soon as break-in is complete, there should be no problems running a Motorcycle-specific synthetic, and it's debatable if it would even be a problem during break-in, because unlike modern car synthetics, MC synthetics do not normally include any anti-friction modifiers. Anything between 1200 and 5k miles is a good rule of thumb that can't steer you wrong.

                Cheers,
                =-= The CyberPoet
                Remember The CyberPoet

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by The CyberPoet
                  Originally posted by FloridaKat
                  After speaking directly with a Mobil representative, only the name changed from Mobil 1 MX4T to Mobil 1 Racing 4T (he confirmed there was no change in formulation).
                  The Australian formulation is differently weighted, among other things. Given their climate compared to most of ours, it makes perfect sense.

                  Cheers,
                  =-= The CyberPoet
                  If comparing US formulation to Australian formulation, I would agree. But, comparing Mobil 1 MX4T formulation to Mobil 1 Racing 4T there is no difference in formulation (for either US or Australia), unless the Mobil 1 representatives are mis-informed.

                  It is safe to assume that Mobil would maintain the same formulation for a given region unless their is a holistic change to the product line.

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                  • #39
                    so am i the only guy here that actually uses suzuki performance oil?

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                    • #40
                      Probably...
                      The Suzuki OEM oil switched it to API SL rated at one point (at least at my local dealer) and a number of riders stopped using it as a result.

                      Cheers,
                      =-= The CyberPoet
                      Remember The CyberPoet

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                      • #41
                        I also use Castrol GPS. The only place I have found it is at Casey Cycle City and they stock the oil filters for the Kat as well. They go for $10.00 a quart and the filter is somewhere between $10 and $15. Thanks to CP also for the oil filter wrench! :mrgreen:
                        2000 Katana 600 (Sold )
                        2008 GSXR 600

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                        • #42
                          I am running Mobil 1 V-Twin http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...in_20W-50.aspx

                          Like the idea of the extra thermal protection out here in SoCal.

                          Tmod

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