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**ManQu** · 04-04-2013, 08:25 AM

I think these have a trip switch on the left side behind a panel if I remember reading about the pre kats...search the forum for the trip / reset switch location....best of luck

**Kreylyn** · 04-04-2013, 09:40 AM

No tip switch.

I highly doubt it's a timing issue or other major issue like compression.

By order of simplicity...

Check the voltage at the coils (orange wire) and verify when the starter is turning the motor over you have a minimal of 11v at the coils. If lower, that would be an issue to prevent the bike from starting when cold.

Check the oil does not smell of fuel, and also that the oil level is not higher than it should be. If it does, change the oil... and you may need to check the carbs are not leaking fuel.

Finally after all that if you find no issues, I would try to start the bike with the seat off. Grab a rag about the size of a hand towel. Set the choke to full. Do NOT touch the throttle. Hit the starter. With the rag balled up, as the engine is cranking, slowly place the rag over the hole for the air filter intake. This will increase the vacuum pulling fuel so it should help force fuel through the carbs (sometimes I've seen airpockets form that limit fuel flow through them). Don't leave the towel there... just move it closer until it's covered crank only a few times like that. If it does not start move the towel away and tray again with out it now.

Of course, if you find any issues with any of the steps above, you probably can skip straight to just starting the bike normally... with choke on, do not touch throttle...

Krey

**Meltdown91** · 04-04-2013, 10:36 PM

+1 to Kreylyn I'll try that tomorrow when I get off. Now I'm new to the Katana but a couple years ago I had a CBR600F3 and in the spring it was always a bear to start and would usually take a couple of minutes. The thing I remember the most was during the several seconds I would try to crank it each time you could hear the exhaust popping and grumbling. Almost like you could hear the compression. My Katana doesn't have anything like that. Really just the sound of the starter. I also, for what it's worth, had been running the Katana open header at the time just for s**t's and giggles (I know, let the name calling commence!) but it has the full exhaust on now. I was told by several people that it could have burn a valve or a piston. But I wouldn't think that would hurt it as long as it was running right? Correct me if I'm wrong. And as far as I know my friend said it shut off right as he laid it down. How bad could the oil level affect starting just out of curiosity?

Edit: Oh and I did have to do an oil change which was done the second after I looked in the sight glass for the crankcase which was a creme color like it had antifreeze in it but it wreaked of fuel, and the owner of the bike before me replaced the air box with 4 indiviual filters, would there be another way remove the airpockets out of the fuel lines assuming they are there?

P.S. sorry for all the questions lol

**yngveny** · 04-05-2013, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by Meltdown91 View Post

the owner of the bike before me replaced the air box with 4 indiviual filters

Now, this is known to cause problems on Katanas. Best thing to do is to go back to original airbox and filter. Search the forum and you'll find countless threads on this, often involving the dreaded K&N filters....

**Kreylyn** · 04-05-2013, 08:26 AM

Ah, the joys of trying to troubleshoot when the obvious issues and information needed are left out...

Originally posted by Meltdown91 View Post

+1 to Kreylyn I'll try that tomorrow when I get off. Now I'm new to the Katana but a couple years ago I had a CBR600F3 and in the spring it was always a bear to start and would usually take a couple of minutes. The thing I remember the most was during the several seconds I would try to crank it each time you could hear the exhaust popping and grumbling. Almost like you could hear the compression. My Katana doesn't have anything like that. Really just the sound of the starter.

It's not close to firing atm. What you were hearing was 1 or maybe 2 cylinders firing, but not all 4 were so it wasn't starting until the engine was warmed up a tad.

Originally posted by Meltdown91 View Post

I also, for what it's worth, had been running the Katana open header at the time just for s**t's and giggles (I know, let the name calling commence!) but it has the full exhaust on now. I was told by several people that it could have burn a valve or a piston. But I wouldn't think that would hurt it as long as it was running right? Correct me if I'm wrong. And as far as I know my friend said it shut off right as he laid it down.

While loud, annoying to everyone around you, and defiantely a decrease in performance.... running with just the header isn't going to damage the bike. The header is what primarily controls the initial exhaust flow, so... no, you were very unlikely to have damaged the parts your friends suggested.

Originally posted by Meltdown91 View Post

How bad could the oil level affect starting just out of curiosity?

Edit: Oh and I did have to do an oil change which was done the second after I looked in the sight glass for the crankcase which was a creme color like it had antifreeze in it but it wreaked of fuel, ...

This was the point that I was suggesting you look for. If there is fuel in the oil, then your carbs need to be cleaned/adjusted. A float needle(s) are not sealing and allowing fuel to flood. This would cause starting issues, running issues, idle issues... Check your oil again, if it smells of fuel, you will need to pull the carbs and address that problem. Once the carbs are fixed, then change the oil again.

Originally posted by Meltdown91 View Post

and the owner of the bike before me replaced the air box with 4 indiviual filters, would there be another way remove the airpockets out of the fuel lines assuming they are there?

P.S. sorry for all the questions lol

Remove the pod filters and put the OEM airbox and an OEM equiv air filter. That will make a HUGE difference in starting and performance for the better.

If you have aftermarket fuel filters I would remove those as well. That will reduce issues with air pockets and fuel flow.

Krey

**Meltdown91** · 04-07-2013, 07:52 PM

Well I got the old air box from the guy I bought the bike from tried the trick with the rag to no luck. There is definitely a good amount of fuel in the oil. I took the carbs off as well as the bowls took the floats out to check the needle valves which seem to be fine. I took a small flat head and depressed the valve to see whether or not it was stuck and they all tested fine. I didn't go to far with it (I'd rather leave the carb tear down to someone who know's what they're doing for the time being.) I'm almost positive It's an issue with the fuel flooding with as high as the oil level is and the fact it wreaks of fuel when you walk near it. I think I might take it to Johnson's Motorsport here in town (depending on their shop rate and let them take a look) I have a "decent" background in cars but for what ever reason bikes scare the bejesus out of me. I also checked the voltage (or tried to) I assume you take the coil wire into the coil and check it that way? If so I ended up with like 2.5 volts that can't be right can it? Just bought a brand new battery and it definitely fully charged. I can tell this bike is going to give me a ride for my money

**92xjunker** · 04-07-2013, 08:06 PM

Chances are, the tank was stirred up when it fell over and some crap made it to the carbs.

**Kreylyn** · 04-08-2013, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by Meltdown91 View Post

Well I got the old air box from the guy I bought the bike from tried the trick with the rag to no luck. There is definitely a good amount of fuel in the oil. I took the carbs off as well as the bowls took the floats out to check the needle valves which seem to be fine. I took a small flat head and depressed the valve to see whether or not it was stuck and they all tested fine. I didn't go to far with it (I'd rather leave the carb tear down to someone who know's what they're doing for the time being.) I'm almost positive It's an issue with the fuel flooding with as high as the oil level is and the fact it wreaks of fuel when you walk near it. I think I might take it to Johnson's Motorsport here in town (depending on their shop rate and let them take a look) I have a "decent" background in cars but for what ever reason bikes scare the bejesus out of me. I also checked the voltage (or tried to) I assume you take the coil wire into the coil and check it that way? If so I ended up with like 2.5 volts that can't be right can it? Just bought a brand new battery and it definitely fully charged. I can tell this bike is going to give me a ride for my money

Buy a set from Arsenic. They will be significantly better and cheaper than what the dealer would do for you.

You can easily instal and sync the new ones.

As for the power issue... key on and ready to start the motor... test the orange/white strip wire at the coil for power. Should be over 11v both sitting there and also when your turning the motor over with the starter. If it's under 11v, your bike won't start.

10v at the coils will let your starter chug and chug... and it will never fire off.

Krey

**Meltdown91** · 04-08-2013, 07:57 PM

Now how much do the tool cost to sync them? I'm used to one 4 barrel carb (barely) not 4 individuals. Gosh I wish this bike was FI I could knock that out in a jiff!

**Kreylyn** · 04-09-2013, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by Meltdown91 View Post

Now how much do the tool cost to sync them? I'm used to one 4 barrel carb (barely) not 4 individuals. Gosh I wish this bike was FI I could knock that out in a jiff!

The pro tool is around $100 or so. I strongly suggest you get one if your planning on keeping and working on the bike.

In the short term, you can make a bottle version with parts locally for around $5.

Krey

**Meltdown91** · 04-30-2013, 11:38 PM

Sorry for getting back so late. I ended up saying screw it and took it down to a local shop. With all the projects I have going on right now I'm too stinkin' busy to mess with it. Not to mention with a 40 dollar labor rate and arguably the best tech in Northeastern Indiana you can't go wrong.

Originally posted by Kreylyn View Post

In the short term, you can make a bottle version with parts locally for around $5.

Krey

Obviously it won't be spot on for five bucks but how accurate is the "bottle version" and what does it take to make it? I've never heard of such a thing.

**Kreylyn** · 05-01-2013, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by Meltdown91 View Post

Obviously it won't be spot on for five bucks but how accurate is the "bottle version" and what does it take to make it? I've never heard of such a thing.

My experiance has been that the setup I made was at minimal = accurate to the pro gauges. It's also significantly more sensitive than the pro gauges I've tried and used to compare between the two. It's one of the reasons I still to this day use the same setup. But... it's not nearly as convienant to "store away"...

Cheap to make Sync tool for carbs... - KatRiders.com

http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=92640

Can't get it to run right? Find a trick to add HP?
From the first oil change to completely rebuilding the engine,
this is the place to talk about the heart of the beast!

My recomendation... If your going to do it yourself more than once, buy the guages. If not... well, I can't find a reason NOT to use the setup I made.

FYI... I found the plans for this on another board, not my idea. I don't care ultimately which you use, but "does it work?... Yes, very well. Pick which one works best for your needs and you feel most comfortable with.

Krey

**Meltdown91** · 05-08-2013, 11:32 PM

Ok so I got a call from the shop and they said they did a compression test and it had no compression. So they did a "leak down" test and decided that the valves were bent. The lady gave me a quote of roughly 1100 including the 60 already spent in labor to diagnose it. Um I don't think so.

So my plan is to get the bike back to the house rip the head off and take a look at the valves, pistons, get it pressure test off the bike, and such to see what all needs replaced. At the same time I'm kind of weighing my option to sell/ part the bike vs just fixing it myself. I have about 1060 invested in the bike so far, I figure depending on the route I go and what all needs replaced I may be able to get the bike running with roughly 100-200 more bucks. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be the better option? I mean it's only a 600 and not the quickest or most luxurious bike ever made (sorry die-hard Suzuki guys!) but I got it for "a great deal" (sorta) and the price of buying a 750 or another CBR around where I live is about 3-5 grand. I really don't want to spend the money.

Essentially what it boils down to it how difficult it is to rip off the head (as far as time is concerned) for a moderate to semi advance back yard mechanic and what the total parts list/cost will be. Which do you think would be the better option? Cut my losses? Or get'r fired back up?

**Meltdown91** · 05-28-2013, 04:39 PM

Well over the long weeked I decided to take the head off the Kat and verified the valves have to be f****d (timing chain was broken) now I'm going to fix it. Do I have to pull the whole motor to put the new chain on and how difficult is it to split the cases? Do I need any special tools is there anything special I need to replace? I know my manual said something about replacing some seals but all in all it's not too descriptive. I hoping to get this done over next weekend.

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