[mstngsrule68]

this is pointless...........

[thetable]

your slightly confused...and no i haven't noticed that because 9 time out of 10 you have to hold both sides of the nut and bolt who you trying to convince?

I'm just trying to keep anyone from being misinformed. I take it you haven't switched out 10 wheels.

And if it was true what you say....there would be a table column for "wet" torque "dry" torque and torquing the head of the bolt instead of the nut?!?(there isn't one..)

if it made a difference it would be made know on a torque table....like how torquing with a lubricant is different than dry torque.

might want to reread your factory service manual. I own a Buell FSM, a Suzi FSM, and two Kawi FSMs, and every one specifically says "Axle nut torque"

Some reading material for you:

http://www.boltscience.com/pages/nutorbolttightening.htm

[steves]

Actually, torque values are set depending on if thread locker or anti-seize is to be used on the application.

[88kat-rider]

I'm just trying to keep anyone from being misinformed. I take it you haven't switched out 10 wheels.


might want to reread your factory service manual. I own a Buell FSM, a Suzi FSM, and two Kawi FSMs, and every one specifically says "Axle nut torque"

Some reading material for you:
http://www.boltscience.com/pages/nut...tightening.htm

LOL...I give up! I can lead the sheep to water but can't force you drink.

FSM are for great and all but they are not a Machinist handbook, or the FAN engineering "bible" that i am taking my facts out of.

Put aside the fact that it's a axle nut and bolt....it's not any different than a regular bolt and nut.

Go get a piece of steel, drill a hole in it and clamp it in your vise (assuming you have one) then do it both ways(torquing nut and torquing bolt) and try and tell me you got a different breaking torque doing it one way than another

[88kat-rider]

Actually, torque values are set depending on if thread locker or anti-seize is to be used on the application.

Anti-seize = Lubricant
No lubricant = dry

No such thing as torque depending on if thread locker is used, just like it doesn't make a difference if you torque the bolt or the nut.

Here is a torque chart you can get anywhere....notice how it lists oil, dry, molylube , and not head of bolt.....I rest my case

Believe what you will

[05RedKat600]

Anti-seize = Lubricant
No lubricant = dry

No such thing as torque depending on if thread locker is used, just like it doesn't make a difference if you torque the bolt or the nut.

Here is a torque chart you can get anywhere....notice how it lists oil, dry, molylube , and not head of bolt.....I rest my case

Believe what you will

You are correct somewhat. The caveat is when the bolt and nut are used to hold together two dissimilar metals. Say the head is on steel, and the nut is on aluminum. The head and the nut would have differing amounts of pressure on them due to the differences in the "grab" of the metals. So when torquing the nut, the metal would have more drag on the nut than if you torqued the head of the bolt, thus creating a different actual torque number than torquing the head of the bolt.

Then again, this is why steel washers are used also. Otherwise, it matters not which one you torque. That link to the website that was posted here proves it. I quote from that website:

The diagram shown at the side is perhaps the most common situation where the top and bottom plates of the joint are made from the same material, have the same finish and the hole size is the same through both of the plates. For such a joint, when the nut face and bolt head sizes have the same diameter and finish, it will not matter whether the bolt head or the nut is tightened. Some people believe that by tightening the bolt head rather than the nut it will affect the torsion in bolt shank. The torsion in the shank of the bolt depends upon the thread friction torque. For a given finish condition, the thread friction has some scatter associated with it, but will not depend on whether the nut or the bolt head is tightened. If the thread friction torque remains the same, the torsion in the shank will be the same irrespective of whether the bolt head or the nut is tightened.

That website goes on to say essentially the same thing I stated above.

I'm just trying to keep anyone from being misinformed. I take it you haven't switched out 10 wheels.


might want to reread your factory service manual. I own a Buell FSM, a Suzi FSM, and two Kawi FSMs, and every one specifically says "Axle nut torque"

Some reading material for you:
http://www.boltscience.com/pages/nut...tightening.htm

This is the website I quoted.

[Tmod]

Interesting point to me I would like to bring up, Take a look at the bottom of this image and tell me what is says.



Hmmm it says These are guidelines only. Refer to manufacturers specs or engineering dept.

Ok let's see what the FSM says which is the manufacturer. "Tighten the front axle nut to the specified torque" It does not say tighten bolt.

Tmod

[GSXFJim]

....or engineering dept.

See... everyone comes to the dark side eventually... even you T..

[Tmod]

See... everyone comes to the dark side eventually... even you T..

I like the dark side, I can see you better with my night vision scope then.

“An engineer's sole purpose in life is to take simple processes and make them difficult.”
~ Andrew Kelsey

The main difference between a Pig and an Engineer is that a Pig does not turn into an Engineer when it gets drunk.

Tmod

[Wild-Bill]

This is all really interesting but nobody seems to be noticing that if you place the (axle) bolt through the swingarm, spacers, wheel, caliper mount and adjusters and then try to turn it without the nut on it at all there will be resistance--measurable as torque. You don't have that resistance to turning the nut, just the friction between the threads of the bolt and nut. Therefore, measuring the torque from the head of the bolt will give you the force needed to turn the bolt through the wheel, swingarm, etc PLUS the force needed to thread further into the nut. Measuring the torque required to turn the nut on the bolt avoids all those extra resistances.

IOW, the engineers FTW.

[Tmod]

This is all really interesting but nobody seems to be noticing that if you place the (axle) bolt through the swingarm, spacers, wheel, caliper mount and adjusters and then try to turn it without the nut on it at all there will be resistance--measurable as torque. You don't have that resistance to turning the nut, just the friction between the threads of the bolt and nut. Therefore, measuring the torque from the head of the bolt will give you the force needed to turn the bolt through the wheel, swingarm, etc PLUS the force needed to thread further into the nut. Measuring the torque required to turn the nut on the bolt avoids all those extra resistances.

IOW, the engineers FTW.

We noticed Bill, We were just waiting for you to bring it to everyone's attention.

Tmod

[05RedKat600]

We noticed Bill, We were just waiting for you to bring it to everyone's attention.

Tmod

How much torque? In all seriousness, I highly doubt this is even 1 ft lb of resistance. Nitty gritty engineering, yes. Beneficial to Joe Schmuck homeowner that doesn't know you're supposed to calibrate a torque wrench every year? Pointless.

[Tmod]

How much torque? In all seriousness, I highly doubt this is even 1 ft lb of resistance. Nitty gritty engineering, yes. Beneficial to Joe Schmuck homeowner that doesn't know you're supposed to calibrate a torque wrench every year? Pointless.

It is a point none the less.

Tmod

[scottynoface]

How much torque? In all seriousness, I highly doubt this is even 1 ft lb of resistance. Nitty gritty engineering, yes. Beneficial to Joe Schmuck homeowner that doesn't know you're supposed to calibrate a torque wrench every year? Pointless.

Torque wrenches are overrated anyway.

[05RedKat600]

It is a point none the less.

Tmod

Yes, it is a point that I had not considered. The reason I had not considered it is because I use a light coat of grease on the axle before reassembly. I really want to know how much this would affect the torque. I always thought that it never mattered whether the head or nut got the torque on it unless dissimilar metals were involved. However, I'm also no engineer even though I get to to play one at work sometimes. So input from a real engineer can be valuable. Despite popular belief, I do listen and learn.

Torque wrenches are overrated anyway.

Spoken in true KR fashion! Wouldn't expect anything less.....