[yngveny]

Does it really take that much to set the bead of a motorcycle tire?

Admit I have never tried on MC myself, but I regularly set the bead on Toyota Land cruisers with a small tankless compressor run of the car battery...
It may take 5 -10 minutes but the tire will pop on no problem.

I suppose getting a MC tire to seal could be more difficult, and we are not suppose to recommend the lighter fluid method are we...

[mammut89]

and we are not suppose to recommend the lighter fluid method are we...

hehe I was thinking that thought right away before you wrote it

I guess its a norwegian arctic truck thing

[Wild-Bill]

hehe I was thinking that thought right away before you wrote it

I guess its a norwegian arctic truck thing

No, just a shade tree, not really ORM (Occupational Risk Management) thing.

I've never been able to get the bead to seat with anything less than a big rush of air. YMMV. I've got a 26 gallon compressor and I have to remove the valve stem (the innards), remove the little nub inside the tire chuck, clip the chuck onto the valve and then trigger the air. If I don't remove both the stem and the nub then the bead doesn't seat. I still say take the wheels around to the back door of the nearest tire dealer (with the new tires and valve stems on) and catch one of the mechanics on his smoke break. Trade two minutes of work for a 12-pack of his favorite frosty beverage. Then again, maybe the military's spoiled me. There aren't too many problems that can't be solved with a suitable application of either high explosives or beer.

[EDIT] Of course, that brings us back to the lighter fluid, doesn't it...

[Syndacate]

I used two of these: http://www.harborfreight.com/24-inch...ron-93230.html for tire irons. They don't have to be expensive to work

For removing the valve stems, Yes, slash the inside and pull it out from the outside. I used plain, old flat jaw pliers.

Valve stems come in two diameters. You need the smaller of these, .453 inches. Like I mentioned before, you do need a special puller to install the rubber ones but the metal ones need a 14mm wrench. I think the metal ones were about $2 more--less than the price of a puller. Autozone and Advance both stock them (both the rubber and metal types) on the shelf.

The generic stick-on wheel weights work just fine.

Looks like your big sticking point is seating the bead. I'd be willing to bet that if you wandered up to the service bay at Wal-Mart or a big tire chain store and talked to one of the mechanics, they'd be more than happy to do that for you for the price of a 12-pack. Trick is to talk to the mechanic, not the manager.

Yeah, sometimes it's hard to find the mechanics away from the manager...as for wal-mart, would you believe that we have the only wal-mart super center I've ever seen in my entire life that doesn't have a tire/automotive/garage section? I was dumbfounded when I saw this.

And perfect that you answered my next question: I went to advance auto today after work to look at valve stems, they had both rubber and steel in .453 an .625, I was going to ask here which ones to use, but it looks like you already nabbed that (thx). So you'd recommend going with steel ones? I personally like the idea of going with the rubber, replacing them when you replace the tire, I don't trust that nut style I guess, I mean sure I could use loctite, but still, I think I rather use the rubber ones, but they didn't have the valve stem puller there.

Is there any pros to using the rubber ones? Or are the steel ones all around better? I like the idea of rubber and replace better, but if steel ones are that much better...than obviously I'll go with that.

Does it really take that much to set the bead of a motorcycle tire?

Admit I have never tried on MC myself, but I regularly set the bead on Toyota Land cruisers with a small tankless compressor run of the car battery...
It may take 5 -10 minutes but the tire will pop on no problem.

I suppose getting a MC tire to seal could be more difficult, and we are not suppose to recommend the lighter fluid method are we...

I don't intend on using any lighter fluid method . That being said, I don't see why it would be more difficult..a tire's a tire, right?

hehe I was thinking that thought right away before you wrote it

I guess its a norwegian arctic truck thing

I'm in Rochester - not quite as bad .

No, just a shade tree, not really ORM (Occupational Risk Management) thing.

I've never been able to get the bead to seat with anything less than a big rush of air. YMMV. I've got a 26 gallon compressor and I have to remove the valve stem (the innards), remove the little nub inside the tire chuck, clip the chuck onto the valve and then trigger the air. If I don't remove both the stem and the nub then the bead doesn't seat. I still say take the wheels around to the back door of the nearest tire dealer (with the new tires and valve stems on) and catch one of the mechanics on his smoke break. Trade two minutes of work for a 12-pack of his favorite frosty beverage. Then again, maybe the military's spoiled me. There aren't too many problems that can't be solved with a suitable application of either high explosives or beer.

[EDIT] Of course, that brings us back to the lighter fluid, doesn't it...

Wow, so the bead is really a pain in the *** to set, eh? I'm hosed from the sound of things . I wish there were local shops around here who could do it. I know of one shop that's a trip and a half, I'm not sure if they'd do it, but I can always ask I suppose...like 25min one way x2 tires, that's 2 hours of driving as I only plan on having one wheel off at a time.

This kinda...really blows...dunno wtf I'm going to do..

[yngveny]

I'm sure Wild Bill is on to something.
My experience with cars is when we wring the tire of while driving in the desert.
But only the outer bead comes off, the inner one is still on, thus making it fairly easy to get the outer bead to seal against the rim, then just letting the pressure build until the outer bead pops on (hope that explanation made sense).

Point is, it would be a big difference when both beads need to be set.

[Wild-Bill]

OK, you're a student at RIT, right? What about the physical plant? Do they have a compressor? I bet they do. You might have to bring your own air chuck though. You need one like this: http://www.harborfreight.com/tire-ch...lip-46788.html and you'll need to have an in-line valve to start/stop the air flow. I use the chuck on the end of this: http://www.harborfreight.com/dual-an...tor-90670.html (The chuck replaces the metal 'wand' on the short hose.)
Unscrew the front and remove the little nub that pushes on the tire's valve stem before clipping it onto the new valve.

[Syndacate]

OK, you're a student at RIT, right? What about the physical plant? Do they have a compressor? I bet they do. You might have to bring your own air chuck though. You need one like this: http://www.harborfreight.com/tire-ch...lip-46788.html and you'll need to have an in-line valve to start/stop the air flow. I use the chuck on the end of this: http://www.harborfreight.com/dual-an...tor-90670.html (The chuck replaces the metal 'wand' on the short hose.)
Unscrew the front and remove the little nub that pushes on the tire's valve stem before clipping it onto the new valve.

I do not have free access to any of the Physics labs. Stuff like that is restricted to majors of those types.

As for my progress:
I can't pick up the core remover, tire irons, and weights until tomorrow after work (I get out of work at 12:30pm).

That being said, I removed the rear wheel today - it has quite a bit of parts I must say. Right now the bike is on its center stand with ramps put bottom to bottom on their sides making a flat surface with a 2x4 across them fitting snug under the swing arm...not exactly a stand, but def. should keep it from tipping back (forward is another story..).

I don't have **** in terms of setting the bead, though, aside from going to all the tire shops in the area, regardless of being chain or not (assuming the Hess station's compressor doesn't work, first). How do I know when "both" beads are set, as yngveny mentioned two posts up - I NEED to hear two pops, and if I don't, assume it's not set? How can I verify that it is set? Just if it's not losing pressure?

Also, for the valve stem, I'm going to cut the old ones, I'll buy new ones (.453", right?), I'll probably go rubber as I don't feel like dealing with nuts on the steel ones, I'm going to buy some chalk too so I can align the dot on the tire with the heaviest part of the rim. Don't know how I'm going to pull the valve stem through, though, Advance auto doesn't have the tool, but I have to try Autozone and Pep boys tomorrow. I was feeling good that the rear wheel gave me no issues, but now after reading this I'm panicking due to lack of tools and knowledge and stuff, and am starting to go nuts and breakdown and the like.

As for the parts, so the axle goes through the left side, through the left adjuster/swing arm after passing through the left swing arm elbow thing, through the sprocket/rim/rotor, then comes out the other side, goes through the caliper mount spacer, through the caliper mount, through the swing arm's right side, through the right adjuster, through the weird elbow thing which I don't see a use for at the moment, through the washer, through the castle nut, and the pin keep that from coming off, is that all right? What do the weird elbow things that go on each side of the swing arm do? Is it just a pointer for the adjuster ticks?

A lot more parts than I thought there were going to be for some reason. I'm also worried about lifting the tire up and getting all this **** wiggled back up there - I didn't loosen the caliper as suggested (I forgot), so I did some wiggling to get it out, as the tail fairing made it a pain to just roll it back.

Ugh.

I'm kind of sad due to lack of tools right now, I was really hoping to get this done by tomorrow - thought I was off to a good start, but I guess it was just pipe dreams or something ..

Not to mention I'm still iffy on adjusting the chain - luckily there's marks that the other ones left for being there so long...but I'm finding it really hard to get an exact measurement of the amount of free play .

[Wild-Bill]

OK, when I said 'Physical Plant' I wasn't talking about the Physics lab. I was talking about the folks who maintain the university grounds, buildings and vehicles. They'll be at the back end of the campus where students don't usually go. They're usually a good bunch of guys who're good at just about anything. You know the type--HS education (or less) but they can fix anything that sits still long enough to put a wrench on it!

If I'm reading you right, those 'elbow things' are the chain adjusters. They go around the axle on each side and have a bolt that presses on plates at the end of the swingarm to pull the axle back, thereby tightening the chain. Look for the forum threads on adjusting the chain and aligning the wheel. It's a tape measure type job although if you didn't mess with the adjusters at all you should be able to just put them back in and then adjust your chain from there by counting 1/4 turns on each bolt. (Same amount on each side to keep the wheel straight.)

As for the brake, you can rotate the caliper up and forward by removing the bolt at the back end of the caliper. Pulling the pads (remove the plastic cover at the top of the caliper, pull the cotter pins holding the two pad keeper pins in place, pull the keeper pins out from the side. Lift the pads out from the top of the caliper.) and pressing the cylinder into the caliper will give you a bunch more slack for getting the wheel back on. Watch the fluid reservoir to make sure you don't push the fluid level up so far it overflows. Brake fluid dissolves paint if you don't clean up any spills right away. You can re-install the pads after getting the wheel back on and bolting the caliper back down. Oh, there's a metal spring between the keeper pins and each of the brake pads. Look at how that's sitting before you pull the pins so you can put them back in the same way. They're there to keep the pads from rattling around. If you rest your free hand on top of the caliper as you pull the keeper pins it'll keep the springs from flying out and getting lost.

[Syndacate]

OK, when I said 'Physical Plant' I wasn't talking about the Physics lab. I was talking about the folks who maintain the university grounds, buildings and vehicles. They'll be at the back end of the campus where students don't usually go. They're usually a good bunch of guys who're good at just about anything. You know the type--HS education (or less) but they can fix anything that sits still long enough to put a wrench on it!

Oh, those people. Yeah that might be a trip and a half as well. Obviously, this being a tech school, all interactions with FMS (Facilities Management Services) are done through an online interaction/inquiry webpage. In short, you fill out forms online, and somebody comes to your door step ready to fix the thing. I have no clue where these people reside O.o.

Though I mis-spoke when I said physics (although what I said remains true), I meant like the Formula 1 machine shop or the Baja machine shop - all the places that'd typically have high end compressors and the like (they have auto CAD machines, I'd hope to god they'd have compressors, the entire vehicles are built from the ground up), but you need to be a team member to be on there, and I lost all my contacts there over the years . Only one I have left is currently half way across the country designing fuel supply systems for Toyota.

If I'm reading you right, those 'elbow things' are the chain adjusters. They go around the axle on each side and have a bolt that presses on plates at the end of the swingarm to pull the axle back, thereby tightening the chain. Look for the forum threads on adjusting the chain and aligning the wheel. It's a tape measure type job although if you didn't mess with the adjusters at all you should be able to just put them back in and then adjust your chain from there by counting 1/4 turns on each bolt. (Same amount on each side to keep the wheel straight.)

Yeah, I was tired when I was writing it, their purpose wasn't making a whole lot of sense - then this morning I was thinking of how the whole assembly goes together and their purpose was quite obvious. Wouldn't exactly call them adjusters, as the adjusters go inside the swing arm forks, but they're the measurements for the adjustments...which I hear aren't always accurate (although I intend on trusting them for my rear wheel alignment purposes :-\).

As for the brake, you can rotate the caliper up and forward by removing the bolt at the back end of the caliper. Pulling the pads (remove the plastic cover at the top of the caliper, pull the cotter pins holding the two pad keeper pins in place, pull the keeper pins out from the side. Lift the pads out from the top of the caliper.) and pressing the cylinder into the caliper will give you a bunch more slack for getting the wheel back on. Watch the fluid reservoir to make sure you don't push the fluid level up so far it overflows. Brake fluid dissolves paint if you don't clean up any spills right away. You can re-install the pads after getting the wheel back on and bolting the caliper back down. Oh, there's a metal spring between the keeper pins and each of the brake pads. Look at how that's sitting before you pull the pins so you can put them back in the same way. They're there to keep the pads from rattling around. If you rest your free hand on top of the caliper as you pull the keeper pins it'll keep the springs from flying out and getting lost.

Ugh, may just be the way you're explaining it, but to me it sounds like a mess O.O. I've done brake jobs on cars many times, discs and drums, I'm assuming a similar concept (a caliper is a caliper, right?) for bikes, although I haven't touched them. I'll see how much room I have when I go to put the wheel on - I kinda-sorta got an idea . Though that's the last step, my current concern is setting the bead.

I picked up my tools today, got a core remover, weights (do I just cut them off?), and tire irons, then went to advance auto and autozone and got a valve stem puller (to pull it "in" - I plan on cutting the old ones "out"), 4 valve stems of .453 and .625 (don't ask why, I'm not entirely sure), the 2nd set of .453s was a fail safe in case I screw up, the 4 .625's were just in case they were actually that or something...I think? They were like 2 bucks a piece). Got a tire brush to get the old stuff off of the bead to hopefully make it seal better - couldn't find bead sealer though..and a few other toys.

I'm going to go out there now and try the actual "change" of the tire - although I have no idea what awaits for me out there .

There's a small shop that my friend knew about, I never saw it because it was behind a restaurant (which he goes to), they don't seem like a chain - I'm going to bring my tire there once I get it on, and hopefully they can pump it up. Then once it's balanced I plan on putting it on, getting it all back together, hopefully tonight I can find a way to prop up the front and remove the front wheel and such - then hopefully I can take it to a garage tomorrow morning. That's the plan now, anyways, who knows what will happen, for me it seems putting **** back together always takes longer than taking it apart, so sure it took me 15-20m to take off the rear tire, it'll probably take twice that putting it back on for me .

I got high hopes right now, guess we'll see...

[Wild-Bill]

The brakes aren't anything cosmic. If you've done car disk brakes then the major difference you'll notice is that you don't have to remove the calipers from the bike to remove the pads. They just lift out the tops of the calipers.

Pity you don't know where the FMS folks hang out. You don't need a big fancy compressor, just one with a tank. If you've got the room to store one, keep an aye out for one at garage sales. They can be had for $50 or less sometimes and they're priceless when you need them. Well worth the storage space IMHO.

The old wheel weights will either peel off if they're stick-on types or pop off with a screwdriver if they're the clip-on type. No need to cut anything and you can re-use them as long as the steel clip isn't broken and they happen to be the right weight.

I think you're making more of this than it is. The hardest part is breaking the bead on the old tires without slipping and knocking the rotors out of true. It should go just fine but good luck in any case.

[Syndacate]

The brakes aren't anything cosmic. If you've done car disk brakes then the major difference you'll notice is that you don't have to remove the calipers from the bike to remove the pads. They just lift out the tops of the calipers.

I see, but as things look in their present state, I got quite a bit to go before then.

Pity you don't know where the FMS folks hang out. You don't need a big fancy compressor, just one with a tank. If you've got the room to store one, keep an aye out for one at garage sales. They can be had for $50 or less sometimes and they're priceless when you need them. Well worth the storage space IMHO.

I don't have much space living in a college apt. I'm going to go to a private shop I recently found out about when it's time to put air in it, if I can't set it with an on-demand compressor...but who knows, I might get lucky?

The old wheel weights will either peel off if they're stick-on types or pop off with a screwdriver if they're the clip-on type. No need to cut anything and you can re-use them as long as the steel clip isn't broken and they happen to be the right weight.

They're the OEM ones that Suzuki put on, these are original tires. I'm not going to bother trying to re-use them.

I think you're making more of this than it is. The hardest part is breaking the bead on the old tires without slipping and knocking the rotors out of true. It should go just fine but good luck in any case.

Well I got through part I today. The bead proved to be tougher than I thought, but my plan for it worked when I got it set up - I didn't get lucky - I had to break both beads. The real issue came in afterward - getting the tire off of the rim.

I made a stupid mistake, I slipped BOTH sides of the tire outside of the rim, opposed to slipping one out and pulling it up, then pulling the other one over the same lip. The rim was free-floating around inside the tire - it was a ***** to get the tire off in that state. The rim slid around in the tire so much that I couldn't flip the whole thing over. I finally got it out by shoving a metal shim in between the tire/rim/tire on the far side, to keep the rim from sliding that way, then started working it over on the opposite side, as it had the shim there, it couldn't slide into the far part of the tire as it had been doing.

I'm not entirely sure where things went wrong, I broke both beads, from there the proper technique would be to choose a random side, pull it up over the rim, pull the tire up, go for the far side, and pull that up and over the same side.

It was a long and grueling process for me, I think I made the mistake of pulling the tire over the outside on both sides as I wasn't thinking. Though I'm not sure exactly how it got into that state. Getting it out of that state is pathetically hard .

The inside of the rim (the part you can't see) is quite a bit scratched, but I don't particularly care, I brought some stuff to use as tire protectors, but I hit that thing up with a tire iron so many different times from so many different angles that I would have gone crazy trying to use them all efficiently.

The process to break the bead and get the tire off, judging by my last post, took about 1hr. I realize this is a very long time, but this is my first bike tire - doing it on a machine is a completely different beast, bead brakes instantly and the tire gets pried off in a nice circular motion by the thing in the center - **** like this doesn't happen, it's quite simple. Seeing as this is what I have, though, this is what I'll use.

Plans for tomorrow:
- Remove old wheel weights
- Cut old valve stem
- Pull new valve stem through (I bought the puller and the stems today)
- Clean rim bead seat with rim brush I bought and some grease cutter in case they used any bead sealer when they put the original tire on, to remove it as it may not make a good seal if there's residue there.
- Find heaviest spot in the rim with the valve stem in, and mark it
- Put old tire on, match its dot with my mark, so the lightest spot of the tire is on the heaviest part of the rim. I don't remember which way the rim went, but seeing as the brake disk goes on the right side, I know which way it has to go.
- Get it inflated - somewhere.
- Balance it
- Depending on what condition I'm in/conditions are outside, put it back on the bike
- Depending on what condition I'm in/conditions are outside, pull the front wheel and start on that.

Guess I'll see where time takes me, tomorrow.

Cliff Notes
- I had a very hard time removing the tire because I believe i made the mistake of pulling both sides of the tire over the rim, letting the rim slide around in the center of the tire.
- I was completely smoked and beat, and breaking the bead and removing the tire took far too long (an hour). That was after 5hrs of work (8:30-1:30, I woke up late), after shopping for tools, and all that was after a solid 4 hours of sleep.
- Currently both tires and the rim are in my trunk.
- Plans are to continue the process where I left off tomorrow

Tools used
- 2 16" tire irons with teflon coating (which was pretty much gone by the time I was done with them)
- 1 floor jack
- 1 scissor jack
- 1 scissor jack spinner tool (that thing used to raise and lower it)
- 2 18" or so 2x4s
- 1 valve core remover
- 1 '97 Honda Civic EX
- I didn't have any Windex handy, but when I finally remembered to use a lube (which was pretty late in the game), 409 worked like a charm

I'm sure some of you guys are looking at this going: "This guy is pathetic, I can't believe it's taking him this long, I did it in 1m45s" - Good for you, I did not, have never changed a tire without a machine, and wasn't exactly working with the highest end tools.

[Wild-Bill]

You did fine except for that self-critiquing bit with prying the tire over both sides of the rim. You forgot the first two steps for the continuation plans: Drink a beer, get some sleep. One other thing I did while I had a tire-less rim: put the thing in a janitor's sink and scrub the devil out of it with a nylon pad. Figured I might as well have a pretty wheel when I was done!

[Syndacate]

You did fine except for that self-critiquing bit with prying the tire over both sides of the rim. You forgot the first two steps for the continuation plans: Drink a beer, get some sleep. One other thing I did while I had a tire-less rim: put the thing in a janitor's sink and scrub the devil out of it with a nylon pad. Figured I might as well have a pretty wheel when I was done!

My rim's a mess, lol. Covered in dirt and grime. I can honestly care less, though, I've tipped the bike over a few times...I'm not going to polish one part while letting the rest of it suck - I'll leave that for my next bike .

So after I broke the bead on both sides I should have pulled the one side over, then yanked up on the tire, then pull that over the same side, right? Can't believe I messed that up. I've done it tons of times on a machine with car tires..just didn't think.. .

I think things have the possibility of going well tomorrow..I'm not sure, though :-\.

[buffalobill]

Another one bites the dust…

My rim's a mess, lol. Covered in dirt and grime. I can honestly care less, though, I've tipped the bike over a few times...I'm not going to polish one part while letting the rest of it suck - I'll leave that for my next bike .

So after I broke the bead on both sides I should have pulled the one side over, then yanked up on the tire, then pull that over the same side, right? Can't believe I messed that up. I've done it tons of times on a machine with car tires..just didn't think.. .

I think things have the possibility of going well tomorrow..I'm not sure, though :-\.

You are a riot Bro!
You're just the kind of guy, rebuilders rescue bikes from. When you you gonna put it up for sale?
Bill

[Dom]

If dealers and motorcycle mechanics are trying to rip you off,
you should be able to bring the two wheels (off the bike) to any no name
auto mechanic and ask him for cheap to remove the tires, put the new ones and balance them.