Battery question

[steves]

I keep the bike batteries in my garage, on a bench, and I cycle the float charger between them. Last night I plugged in the kats battery... was doing something else... and heard a noise coming from the battery? When I inspected it, it had some bubbling going on. The water level looks like it might be a little low.... my garage is not heated, but is attached to the house. I figure the averge temperature in there is around 40-50*.

1) Is the battery still okay?
2) Is the bubbling noise bad?
3) Should I attempt to top off the water?
4) Should I just take the battery for recycling and replace it?

[Wade-Kat600]

yeah the battery is fine

bubbling is normal during charging

yes top off the water with DISTILLED water - dont use tap - it has too many contaminates

Dont get rid of it - its fine

[macgyver]

I don't know, is it possible that he may have cooked the inside of the battery by charging it when it was low?

[steves]

I don't know, is it possible that he may have cooked the inside of the battery by charging it when it was low?

I dunno how low it might have been. It was last plugged in about a week ago.... so not like it's totally dead? I didn't yank out the multimeter to see what it's got... too busy fussing with my shiny new brake lines.

[macgyver]

If you had the battery for a couple of years it's probablly just better to buy a new one, better safe than sorry

[steves]

If you had the battery for a couple of years it's probablly just better to buy a new one, better safe than sorry

It was brand new 4/06.

[StevieB]

I'd charge it up carefully- I'd say 5 amps, off the top of my head- and check it. Load test would be best, but you prob. don't have a tester with a carbon pile, so put in in bike, start bike without choke pulled (so it will be hard to start, run starter for about 10-15 seconds) and check voltage again. A drop to about 12.6 or more (again, from memory) indicates battery is still okay.

Or bring it to Autozone and have them test it. They will have a carbon-pile equipped tester.

[steves]

Also, so far as the low water level... I suspect that water is down by the creek at the gap...

The only reason I can figure that it's low, is that some came out when Kristin had her "oopps" moment at the swimmin hole.

[md86]

I THINK Stevie means ".5" amps . 5 would be bad , m'kay ?
Yeah , batteries lose electrolyte over time . Normal . That's why you check them . Bubbling is ALSO normal . Means it's pretty well charged usually . Just top off Like Mac said . And if you THINK maybe the water is bad (creek water may not be a GREAT idear ...) , just drain it and refill with distilled water . It'll PROBABLY even have the same charge . Mine was BONE-dry before : , and I refilled it with some bottled water (all we had at the Gap ) , and it started RIGHT up .
But yeah , a drop and the battery could lose a bit . It IS basically water , and a vent tube runs out the top .....

[The CyberPoet]

First of all, is it a maintenance free battery? (easy way to tell -- maint-free have no drain tube).
If so, you need to skip the idea of adding anything -- if the acid is low, time to replace the battery. But it's not like you are apt to notice by looking at it -- maint free batteries normally don't have translucent casings.

As for the boiling, if the battery was particularly low in charge, AND/OR the charger rate is too high, it can easily cook the acid. The acceptible continuous charge rate for the 98+ Kats is 800 milliamps (0.8 amps), but it's unlikely that an 1 amp float charger would have an issue. If your charger puts out significantly more than 1 amp, you shouldn't be using it with your cycle batteries. As MD noted, 0.5 is ok, 5.0 is dangerous (a five-amp charger would need to be disengaged for 50 minutes out of every hour to let the battery cool adequately).

IMHO:
Charge, test the battery voltage, wait 12 hours and retest the voltage, then make the call. Charged needs to be 12.7 volts, and there should be absolutely zero voltage loss over a 12 hour period if it's not connected to anything.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[The CyberPoet]

Oh, and MD's a bit wrong about draining the battery and refilling it with distilled water -- while distilled water is the right answer for topping of standard (non-maint-free) batteries, the liquid that is in there is an acid and if you drain it out & refill with just water, you've nixed your battery right there.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[md86]

Oh, and MD's a bit wrong about draining the battery and refilling it with distilled water -- while distilled water is the right answer for topping of standard (non-maint-free) batteries, the liquid that is in there is an acid and if you drain it out & refill with just water, you've nixed your battery right there.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

Uh oh , do I got you on this one .........
I did some research into just that ... TOTALLY driaining a battery and refilling it . The info I found said that once it's been charged , you ONLY fill or REFILL with distilled water . Once the origional electrlyte has been added and it's been charged , that's it , no more electrolyte . I'm POSTIVE on this , but I can't remember the sources .....

[The CyberPoet]

Uh oh , do I got you on this one .........
I did some research into just that ... TOTALLY driaining a battery and refilling it . The info I found said that once it's been charged , you ONLY fill or REFILL with distilled water . Once the origional electrlyte has been added and it's been charged , that's it , no more electrolyte . I'm POSTIVE on this , but I can't remember the sources .....

Fill/refill with water - yes. Drain and refill with water - NO.

A traditional lead-acid battery contains sulfuric acid and metal plates composed primarily of two forms of lead plus some trace metals.

The liquid portion contains traditionally approximately 2 parts water to one part sulfuric acid in a brand-new battery.

As a high-voltage charging interaction between the plates and the acid occurs (charging system recharging the battery), water within gets ripped into oxygen and hydrogen gases (happens above 14.3 volts traditionally). This results in the acid becoming stronger (because of water loss), and to off-set this, you add distilled water (because other traditional water sources contain minerals that can plate the metals, blocking the electro-chemical interaction).

What I hear you telling me (at least the way I keep reading it) is that it perfectly acceptible to drain all the liquid out the battery and replace the acid solution you just drained with only distilled water. If you do this, removing the acid in the battery, you've killed the battery, because water + metal plates does not generate electricity at the types of voltages required.

You could however, drain the battery and replace the acid solution with fresh acid solution in the traditional strength, a good solution for a previously healthy battery that has taken a spill and lost a portion or all of it's battery acid.

Note that this applies only to traditional maintenance style lead-acid batteries. Absorbative Glass Matt (AGM) and sealed AGM batteries use a fiberglass matting between the plates that holds the acid in place, and may contain a gelling compound that gels the acid once it enters the matt. Since AGM batteries also off-gas at charging rates above 14.3 volts, they also lose water; thus, in theory (if you can access the cells of the battery), you could drain out any liquid that would drain (shouldn't be any) and top the battery up with water in the hopes you could replentish the water content of the acid mixture -- but that flies in the face of it being a maintenance-free battery

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[FloridaKat]

The bubbling you had seen/heard was likely an over-charge being applied to your battery due to:

1) Low acid/water levels.
2) Overcharge rating of your charger.
3) Acid/water ratio was too low. Boil over for sulfuric acid (~338C) is higher than distilled water. (which has already been purified by boiling off the impurities).
4) Combination of any of the above.

Water is, by itself, a form of an electrolyte. It has limited capacitance and it's charge/discharge curves are dismal compared to other electrolytes (like sulfuric acid). Some higher capacity electrolytes (i.e. KOH) are extremely caustic and would wreak havoc with most metal-based plates in a conventional maintenance-free battery unless they had an acceptable separator. So...

Topping off a battery with some distilled water is perfectly acceptable, but to completely drain and re-fill with a low or no capacity electrolyte like distilled water will not yield the specifications required for most 12V and north batteries.

It is very practical to re-fill (after complete draining) a battery with sulfuric acid (and ~1/3 distilled water) every 2-3 years provided you clean the electrode plates as well. I would not recommend doing this as the disposal and working concerns with sulfuric acid and lead plates could be harmful to unknowledgeable handlers. It's not that neutralizing the acid is hard, but it becomes cost prohibitive unless you plan on re-conditioning larger quantities (not to mention potential shipment issues with acids).

You should be able to use a 1-2 amp charger to re-charge your Kat's battery with no problems so long as you limit the charge the duty cycle (roughly 1/2 hour on, 1/2 hour off for a 2A charge rating) and there is no thermal runaway.

Note: Most motorcycles on the market use an AGM battery to reduce the likelihood of acid-spilling during an accident. An AGM battery is a smaller battery which could aid in placement at odd angles/spaces inside the motorcycle.

[steves]

The battery in question is not a maintenance free model... it has fill ports for water.

I'm going to top it off with distilled water to the "fill line" then put it back on the charger while I'm around to pay attention to it and see what happens...