[smokeyob]

Chain recommendation?

I've read through this post, was wondering if anybody had any suggestions for a "middle-of-the-road" chain, targeting $100.

This is for my friends 02 Kat, who has been riding on a rusty old chain for a year now. He's kind of cheap with the bike, I convinced him to at least let me lube it up for him last year. I finally convinced him over the winter that he MUST change the chain before this season. Note: He is not changing the sprockets, only the chain. To his defense, the chain is rusty due to the previous owner's lack of care for the bike, it sat outside for a year. The sprockets look good to me, maybe I can take a pic and post it up here and you guys can tell me what you think.

Thanks in advance?

[The CyberPoet]

If he's a skin-flint, try JC Whitney. But for F's sake, change the sprockets at the same time, or the new chain will be like the old chain in short order...

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

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The Best Metal Steel Aluminum Motorcycle Tire Valves in the World, plus lots of motorcycle & Katana (GSX600F / GSX750F) specific help files.

[jettajake00]

I recently noticed a sudden loose chain noise on the last couple rides...checked, and noticed it somehow developed a huge amount of slack in the chain...I adjusted, cleaned, lubed...I know a chain won't necessarily be the exact amount of play through the entire revolution, but, on mine, a good 1/3 of the rotation I would say it seems as if it tightens up pretty decently requiringforce to make it have about a half inch or so of play, and the rest of it is about 1 to 1.1 inches.....Does this sound like I need a new chain (then obviously sprockets at same time), or is this possibly normal?
The rear sprocket doesn't seem to be wore really (figured the front is the same didn't check though)...and I can't seem to specify a kinked link or anything...only thing I can think of is when I first got it a month ago, it didnt have a split pin on the end of the axle....I had to buy a cotter pin at the nearest auto store and it seems that itmay not have the secure bite on that to keep it from moving maybe which is possibly why it loosened all the sudden???
thoughts? I appreciate it...

[The CyberPoet]

Basic alignment issue might be to blame -- rear axle might not be square to the swingarms, thus putting more pressure on the chain as the wheel rotates. Easy enough to check -- using a grease pencil or permanent marker, put a mark at the top of the rear sprocket right at the point where your chain tension is max, then rotate the wheel and see if it does it exactly at that alignment spot again. If it does, it's probably the wheel alignment -- if it doesn't, it's probably the chain itself. Oh, and never trust the floating alignment plates for aligning the rear axle -- use one of the other methods to check for alignment (chain tool, ruler from the adjusters to the end of the swingarm, string method, etc.).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[jettajake00]

CP,
Thanks for the timely reply....I was wondering if that was the issue possibly....I noticed those stupid alignment blocks have a little play on them, which made me wonder how reliable the "notch method" worked....I'll get home later (in the car till I get this straightened out) and align it with one of the other methods....I looked in the manual and found the string method....I will try this, is this your preferred and easiest? I am not familiar with the others....
Thanks!

[The CyberPoet]

I noticed those stupid alignment blocks have a little play on them, which made me wonder how reliable the "notch method" worked....I'll [snip] align it with one of the other methods....I looked in the manual and found the string method....I will try this, is this your preferred and easiest?

My personal preferred method for a misaligned chain for me is to use a laser-alignment tool (Profi brand Laser chain aligner) that slaps against the rear sprocket and shoots a beam down the chain, but I realize that's not an option for many riders (few are going to invest that kind of $$ on such a tool). The other option I tend to use is to make sure you rotate each adjuster the exact same amount (assumes the wheel was aligned to begin with); i.e. if you rotate the left adjuster nut 90 degrees, you rotate the right one exactly 90 degrees as well.

The plates are not particularly reliable, but their reliability goes way up if you manually push them forward as far as they will go in their travels when taking a reading on each side (big issue there is movement of the axle when tightening afterwards). You can also count thread ridges across the top of the adjuster bolts as a way of measuring (how many threads are exposed past the nut). The final method I tend to use is to simply stand behind the bike and look at how the chain travels over the rear sprocket -- if the teeth are against one side of the chain at the top & bottom but against the middle or opposite side in the center, I know the alignment is off -- the chain should generally stay in the same spot as it traverses around the sprocket (and I think 90% of the chain failures I see are due to this left-right-left or right-left-right sliding action of the rollers across the teeth generating excess heat that cooks the seals for the rollers).

I've never used the string method, but it's a perfectly viable method (ditto 2x4 or other known straight edges).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[jettajake00]

My personal preferred method for a misaligned chain for me is to use a laser-alignment tool (Profi brand Laser chain aligner) that slaps against the rear sprocket and shoots a beam down the chain, but I realize that's not an option for many riders (few are going to invest that kind of $$ on such a tool). The other option I tend to use is to make sure you rotate each adjuster the exact same amount (assumes the wheel was aligned to begin with); i.e. if you rotate the left adjuster nut 90 degrees, you rotate the right one exactly 90 degrees as well.

The plates are not particularly reliable, but their reliability goes way up if you manually push them forward as far as they will go in their travels when taking a reading on each side (big issue there is movement of the axle when tightening afterwards). You can also count thread ridges across the top of the adjuster bolts as a way of measuring (how many threads are exposed past the nut). The final method I tend to use is to simply stand behind the bike and look at how the chain travels over the rear sprocket -- if the teeth are against one side of the chain at the top & bottom but against the middle or opposite side in the center, I know the alignment is off -- the chain should generally stay in the same spot as it traverses around the sprocket (and I think 90% of the chain failures I see are due to this left-right-left or right-left-right sliding action of the rollers across the teeth generating excess heat that cooks the seals for the rollers).

I've never used the string method, but it's a perfectly viable method (ditto 2x4 or other known straight edges).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

CP,
THe bike was in fact out of alignment....The string method yields the distance greater on the right side than the left....However, the slider notches are equal....My question is (brain not working right here) : Which directions do I need to go with which adjustment nuts to get the distances on the front tire equal in relation to the string??
TIA

[The CyberPoet]

Out on the tight side, in on the loose side. When you loosen the the one side, use your leg to push on the wheel to force it rearward.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[jettajake00]

So to clarify, using string method, if the right side of bike has lots of room between front tire and string (approx 28 mm), and left side no room-I should adjust to have a distance of 14mm on each side between front tire and string so they are even....It's like I am trying to toe-in right? The right side of rear tire (at the front of the tire) needs to go inward to the left, correct?
Does this mean turning the right side adjustment nut clockwise and the left side counter clockwise? or reverse?
And I need to be pulling the rear wheel rearward on these moves, correct?
I think I am maybe making this more difficult than it should be, but it's the first time, and it's bothering me because its way off...I seem to be adjusting either way and no noticeable difference yet, figuring I am missing something somewhere

Thanks again for the timely assistance


update from last night:
finished it up finally got equal measurements on both sides, still having about a third of the rotation where the chain gets pretty tight, and the rest is good....I went ahead and took it to the shop a few min from my house, and will have them check if it needs a chain and sprockets....
update from yesterday:
I took it in, and the guy said I have a couple more seasons out of my chain and sprockets probably, he said it just needed a little more adjustment, and I pretty much had it in line they said, it may have been a hair off...interestingly still enough it tightens up in the same spot it seems a little bit, just gonna chalk that up to maybe a little natural uneven wear
I'll probably change that cotter pin for a split pin on the back for more secureness from loosening itself...

[GSXF 600 Guy]

Ok, now im so confused its not funny. Even my local Suzuki dealer is scratching their heads. I replaced the sprockets, chain, and added a auto oiler and the chain is still comming loose. Both the sprockets are the same metal compound (cant remember what it said), and it has been installed & mantained by my local dealership. Any ideas???

[The CyberPoet]

Ok, now im so confused its not funny. Even my local Suzuki dealer is scratching their heads. I replaced the sprockets, chain, and added a auto oiler and the chain is still comming loose. Both the sprockets are the same metal compound (cant remember what it said), and it has been installed & mantained by my local dealership. Any ideas???

If we're talking about less than 10k miles, they haven't been maintaining it to the right length or using the right procedure to set the slack (not leaving it enough). Using the procedure listed in the owner's manual [pg 58], the chain should be set to 1.1" of slack on the lower-half of the chain at the half-way point (slightly over 1/2" up, 1/2" down) with the bike parked on the centerstand and the wheel off the ground (hanging slack) for a 98+ Kat.



Set it to 0.9" or less (0.8" is the minimum called for) and you'll stretch out a chain in short order. If they installed the vortex/RK combo that I suggested, they can replacements for free by submitting the chain as an under-warrantee claim.

PS - which oiler did you go with? How fast is it consuming oil?

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[GSXF 600 Guy]

A Camelion or Lizard.. Some crap like that. The Oil canister has no markings on it. I remember the guy telling me what it was when i had suzuki put it all in, and they just put auto oiler on the receipt. The oiler had to be filled last week (about a month and a 1/2 total on one fill). And every time the chain seemed to be loose I took it right over to the dealer. They installed the stuff. I didnt have the spare hours to do it (working 7 days 12hrs a day for the next 2 months). Do you think they didnt tighten it right?

[The CyberPoet]

Do you think they didnt tighten it right?

If the chain has had an oiler in place since new, that oiler was programmed right, and they did the adjustments when needed, AND the chain is failing way too fast (well under 10k miles), there is no other conclusion I can reach

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[GSXF 600 Guy]

I got a friend of mine that thinks they installed the sprockets and chain wrong, and im not going to go back to the dealership. The RK Chain is the only thing i can not find online. Can someone send me a link for the chain? im going to see if replacing it again will do anything.

[The CyberPoet]

Take the top one out of these two (the only difference is color and $20)

http://www.bikebandit.com/product/17827?mg=3765&t=1&td=1

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet