[Stumpy]

Last time I was in the UK - we had no ethanol in the petrol at all. It smells, looks, runs and spreads very differently than the gasoline in the USA. It's even a different colour. Petrol is kind of a steel blue colour, and gasoline here is straw blonde.

[crazycraven420]

I havnt seen ANY non ethanol pumps for miles an miles in years in my area...its kinda like corded telephones lol the younger generations will never know real gasoline...

[numus]

I havnt seen ANY non ethanol pumps for miles an miles in years in my area...its kinda like corded telephones lol the younger generations will never know real gasoline...

We have like 7 here... They are spread out and some only have 87, some only 89 and some only 93 non-ethanol. The 89 (where I usually fill up) is an above ground tank of 89 non-ethanol only for "recreational vehicle" use.

You will almost always find non-ethanol gas at airports and marinas.

[crazycraven420]

im not sure if the station on the lake by me is non-ethanol or not but its over $6 a gallon so yea screw that lol

[Jreid843]

I havnt seen ANY non ethanol pumps for miles an miles in years in my area...its kinda like corded telephones lol the younger generations will never know real gasoline...

Yeah I dont see anymore either. Well no where in my area I see them in the country at times

[numus]

http://pure-gas.org/ has a list of non-ethanol pumps. It isn't complete by any means.

[Tempted]

I've got a few 100% gasoline stations around me. Most big lakes have them scattered about because of what ethanol does to most boat motors. Its a little more a gallon but you get better fuel economy and power so it pretty much washes out in the end. I use 93 octane, non-ethanol in all my vehicles when possible. Sometimes on the road I can't find good fuel and have to use E10 crap. Ethanol is actually fantastic for boosted and super high compression engines. Its higher octane rating can be ran at higher pressure without pre-detonation, you just have to use more of it to get the same amount of power out.

[crazycraven420]

http://pure-gas.org/ has a list of non-ethanol pumps. It isn't complete by any means.

that's pretty cool, none near me but still cool lol

[Stumpy]

Thanks for that website! I've found one locally that apparently sells non-ethanol fuel. I'll check it out tomorrow

[crazycraven420]

nice!

[mektek]

Fuel brands

I have been carefully monitoring my fuel economy from several major brands for months in my 750 Kat and here are the results:

Hess/Valero 40-42 mpg
Sunoco 44-46 mpg
BP 47-48mpg - (only tried once so needs to be verified)

All using midgrade.
I found the highest amount of ethanol in Walmart stations, and I would never put that crap in my Kat - or lawnmower

[TRPUT]

I agree with you on this in one aspect. Your statement is true as far as I'm concerned on a base level. The problem to me though is we are talking about octane in general, and the "need" for different octane fuels in a Kat.

OK - that's why we're at odds. Yes, the thread began talking about 87/89/91 Octane. That's how many people define the various brews / blends available. I prefer to define them as they tend be be defined here - standard (ULP) which is 91 RON and may contain up to 10% ethanol - premium (PULP) which is a more refined fuel with some additives - and ultra premium (PULP98) that is supposed to be a more refined fuel again with the best additive package for cleanliness, performance, economy ... blah blah blah.

So, does a Kat benefit from running a higher octane fuel? Probably not.

Does a Kat benefit from running a non-ethanol premium fuel that is is more refined and contains a different blend of ingredients including those designed to keep the tank, carbs and cylinders cleaner ... but which also happens to have a higher octane rating? In my experience, that's a big fat YES!

I don't fill up with premium fuel for the octane. I use it for its other qualities. And it works for me. So, it's everything else in a premium fuel (I use 95 RON which is equivalent to your 91 I believe) that I want. Then, with a little tuning to make the higher octane an advantage rather than a disadvantage, I have a very sweet running Kat that thrives on premium (95 RON) but hates standard fuel and mildly tolerates Ultra Premium 98.

Tuning? (Notwithstanding our carbs are set up slightly differently from yours, and our fuel is different.) The O2 meter confirmed that to feel like it was running well on standard fuel and carbs set to roughly as recommended, it ran too rich. In the 12.5 - 13.5 range under light throttle. Set to 14.5, it ran like shit and pinged its nuts off. Add premium fuel, adjust carbs to keep it at 14.5:1, advance timing a few degrees ... and it runs beautifully. Starts instantly even after sitting for 2 months, plenty of smooth power, absolutely no flat spots or hesitation, brilliant economy, and carbs that stay clean. Seems like a win-win to me.

This is the economy chart starting from a standard set-up to where it is now. OK, economy is only one aspect, but the chart clearly shows how that measure has improved since moving to and tuning for premium fuel:

http://www.fuelly.com/driver/trput/k...0-51/fuelchart

[/COLOR]

That's the rub... the blurb of "more power per drop". It's a misleading statement. This advertisement is also exactly why everyone wants to argue that higher octane is inherently better. It's not. It does not have more energy.

[COLOR=blue][COLOR=#000000]

I never said or assumed the energy was related to the octane rating, and you have certainly clearly explained why it isn't. It's the other "stuff" in or removed from premium fuel that might either increase potential energy or improve the efficiency with which it is released. I'm a natural sceptic, so I ignored the fuel company claims of extra power, but when car manufactures began releasing official performance and economy figures for each model for the various fuels that revealed slight performance gains on premium and ultra-premium fuels, it gave some credibility to the claims.

At the end of the day, I don't care what fuel anyone else uses. I've just shared what works for me. If someone else wants to try tuning for premium fuel and then enjoy the same benefits as I, that's great. If someone can show me a 750 Kat that achieves the same smooth performance and economy year after year on 87 fuel, I'll certainly be all ears.


For street use fuels, this is one of the effects the added cleaners are stated as having per multiple US Gov websites. Now... we all know if the Gov says it, it must be true!

Governments never lie!

[numus]

Governments never lie!

Not as much as the gas industry atleast.