Whats wrong with this?

[kohnerbownerr]

So my chain was loose and slightly offset. so tightening both adjusters on the swingarm evenly wasn't an option. but now I can't seem to get it good for the life of me. I can get it lined up and tensioned. but the second I go to tighten the axle, the wheel moves back and the chain is tight again... this happen to anyone else?

[GSXFJim]

Interesting.. some good clear images might help.. you might need another set of hands to help.. I've never had that issue before..

[thetable]

Are you missing the washer between the axle nut and the swingarm? Doesn't the pre also have the indcator plates that wrap around the swingarm to give you a good guestimate of eveness? 11 and 23 in this pic, and there should be another 23 on the other side.

Other than that, try putting the axle in from the opposite side. That should force the wheel forward into the adjusters instead of backwards against the chain.

[mammut89]

most of the time the chain will become slightly tighter after you tight the bolt. another thing to check: is your chain evenly worn out? as in if you check how tight it is every 10cm while turning the rear wheel with your other hand. if you have tight spots you will never be able to get it right and you need to change your chain ( and most likely sprocket )

[Kreylyn]

The only thing I can think of that could cause a serious change in how tight the chain is, simply by tightening the bolt on the axle... is that the wheel/swingarm alignment is wrong. Missing spacers, bent parts, or what ever... but when your pressing everthing together, it's changing the wheel angle.

If it's not something like that... then there just isnt' enough info for me to even remotely guess. Pics would help or video of what is happening.


Krey

[girlykat]

i had a very similar experience with the chain.... I also noticed something odd....

I could tighten the rear axle bolt's nut more than it should be....the cotter pin slots on the nut don't have the hole inbetween but behind the nut?!?!

Can it be over tightened??

i followed the diagram on bikebandit and don't think i am missing any spacers or washers...but i didn't think the bolt was as tight as it should be and i was already past the cotter pin hole in the nut(cotter pin hole in axle is behind the nut, not within the nut slot)

[Kreylyn]

Take a pic if you can.... that will help alot.

Krey

[girlykat]

well i dont have a pict on my bike but to give you an idea of what is happening..i made a crude picture.

i had laid all my spacers and washers out on the ground and made sure i had them in the correct places...only thing is the PO might have put something in there that isn't the correct size (washers?/?) all i know is i have the right number of parts and they all seemed correct.

[steves]

Are you sure it's the wheel moving, and not just the chain is shot?

[88kat-rider]

So my chain was loose and slightly offset. so tightening both adjusters on the swingarm evenly wasn't an option. but now I can't seem to get it good for the life of me. I can get it lined up and tensioned. but the second I go to tighten the axle, the wheel moves back and the chain is tight again... this happen to anyone else?

His problem can be solved by turning the head of the bolt and holding the nut in place rather than turning the nut and holding the head.

The momentum from the direction he is turning the nut is causing the wheel and axle to slide forwards until it gets snug and tightens up(not backwards like you said or the chain would get tighter). I promise that will fix this problem

[05RedKat600]

His problem can be solved by turning the head of the bolt and holding the nut in place rather than turning the nut and holding the head.

The momentum from the direction he is turning the nut is causing the wheel and axle to slide forwards until it gets snug and tightens up(not backwards like you said or the chain would get tighter). I promise that will fix this problem

The brackets that wrap around the axle are supposed to prevent this. If this is indeed an issue, you need to get new adjusters as they aren't holding the axle properly.

[thetable]

His problem can be solved by turning the head of the bolt and holding the nut in place rather than turning the nut and holding the head.

Don't do that, your axle torque will be way too low.

[88kat-rider]

Don't do that, your axle torque will be way too low.

No offense but your comment makes no sense...If you torque the head of the bolt while holding the nut or torque the nut and hold the head the torque isn't affected....ask me why i know.


I use to work on our research and development team at Western turbo and fuel injection where We frequently tested this exact theory on turbo charger compressor wheels and on cummins select EUI valves...using a reverse torque wrench it can be verified that 50 ft/lbs of torque on a head of a bolt or nut...no difference, it will take more than 50 ft/lbs to break the torque either way you do it.


now if you don't use a torque wrench you might not achieve the same torque because some of the force will be lost through the length of the bolt (might feel like you gave it 50 ft/lb but really only got 35 when checking on a reverse torque wrench)

[thetable]

Ever notice how you don't have to hold the bolt end of the axle why tightening or loosening the nut. That is because there is resistive force acting on that axle keeping it from spinning, all the way through where the axle makes contact with the swingarm, with the axle adjuster, with the bearings in the wheel, with the spacer. You really want to prove my point, use two calibrated torque wrenches on each side of the axle, one on the hex head of the axle, and the other on the nut, see which one clicks first. I guarantee, that they won't both click at the same time.

Hell, you can do the same thing with just one, tighten the hex hed on the axle with one torque wrench and hold the nut still. Then use the same torque wrench and torque the nut.

Lets make it even easier, next wheel you swap out, back out the bolt instead of the nut, and then try to convince anyone that the nut doesn't spin off the axle much more easily than trying to spin the axle out of the nut.

[88kat-rider]

Ever notice how you don't have to hold the bolt end of the axle why tightening or loosening the nut. That is because there is resistive force acting on that axle keeping it from spinning, all the way through where the axle makes contact with the swingarm, with the axle adjuster, with the bearings in the wheel, with the spacer. You really want to prove my point, use two calibrated torque wrenches on each side of the axle, one on the hex head of the axle, and the other on the nut, see which one clicks first. I guarantee, that they won't both click at the same time.

Hell, you can do the same thing with just one, tighten the hex hed on the axle with one torque wrench and hold the nut still. Then use the same torque wrench and torque the nut.

Lets make it even easier, next wheel you swap out, back out the bolt instead of the nut, and then try to convince anyone that the nut doesn't spin off the axle much more easily than trying to spin the axle out of the nut.

your slightly confused...and no i haven't noticed that because 9 time out of 10 you have to hold both sides of the nut and bolt who you trying to convince?

It's been tested using an ACTUAL REVERSE TORQUE WRENCH not a regular torque wrench in reverse cause that does damage and throws them out of calibration and is in no way accurate in reverse

I'm not saying it won't be harder to achieve the same torque (your right on that) but 50ft/lbs of torque not matter how you look at it is 50 ft/lbs. torquing the head of the bolt will require more force to get 50 ft/lbs than the nut, but once you get 50 ft/lbs and it clicks... it won't break off at a lower torque. I don't know what school you went to or what experience you have to back it, but I'm a red seal Millwright. This is what i do everyday.

And if it was true what you say....there would be a table column for "wet" torque "dry" torque and torquing the head of the bolt instead of the nut?!?(there isn't one..)

if it made a difference it would be made know on a torque table....like how torquing with a lubricant is different than dry torque.