Fit a 5.5" GSXR Wheel without welding!?

[Meursault]

Click this ebay link for a kit?

So this lists a kit to swap a 99-02 SV650 wheel, to a 5.5" GSXR wheel, and IIRC, isn't the SV650 from that generation able to swap into the Kat?

[ITS_NOT_A_KNIFE]

you can get a 5.5 to work with a bearing swap, but the katana swing arm is too narrow, it wont clear the rim....ive had problems on my post98 rims swaps with the tire rubbing on the brake arm. so if a 160 can rub a 180 wont work

[Meursault]

you can get a 5.5 to work with a bearing swap, but the katana swing arm is too narrow, it wont clear the rim....ive had problems on my post98 rims swaps with the tire rubbing on the brake arm. so if a 160 can rub a 180 wont work

Good to know! I just saw it, and searched to see if it had been brought up before. Thanks for the instant respond!

[stretched600]

....ive had problems on my post98 rims swaps with the tire rubbing on the brake arm. so if a 160 can rub a 180 wont work

Chop n re work the brake arm. It will pivot with the wheel as they are on the same axis. As long as you get it close, you'll be fine!!

[Kreylyn]

Chop n re work the brake arm. It will pivot with the wheel as they are on the same axis. As long as you get it close, you'll be fine!!

Depending on the year (Pre or post) and if it's Pre... the CC (600 swinger is smaller than 750) you have a couple of options.

First, let me address the aspect of fitment at the axle.

Pre or post... your only looking at a small difference in diam. inside to inside between the 2 arms. By my measurments about 1/4".

See pictures below... left is stock pre 600.. right is stock post Kat (bothy 600 and 750 are same on post).





Pre 750 uses 3.5 rim... post uses 4.5 rim. The Katana rims have a slightly smaller central width on the hubs as well. So, using a Katana rim it's not that hard to swap out between pre or post... the difference is easily made up with flex... The wheels were designed to be used with 17mm axles, and you have a width of about 5" at the center hub.

Lets move on to other wheels... like say, off a RF600 4.5" (curved spoke like the pre styled wheels) or the 1992 GSXR 600 5.5" (straight spoked like the Post). Both of these wheels were designed to be used with 20mm axles... and both have the same hub diam. of 5.5"

The difference is 1/2" that has to be made up. This will offset your wheel by half that much... but 1/4" that isn't really that much of an issue to be honest. You could still flex out the end of the swinger to compensate. Several people have already posted about getting bikes where someone forgot to put the sprocket side spacer back on before torquing down the axle, and permenantly flexing the swinger in by 1/4+".

See picture here.. GSXR axle, all spacers correctly in and spaced for the chain side... the difference is shown here...





It's not so much the axle point that you have to worry about. Pick the right wheel.. you can easily fit 3.5-5.5" rims in. The problem comes in when you look at the tire clearance.

So.... lets look at that.

The following are pictures of a GSXR 600 5.5 Straight spoke wheel with a Post Kat swingarm, a 190/50/17 tire is mounted on the rim. The sprocket carrier is the same for a Kat, the RF6, or the GSXR 6 for these model wheels. No difference there. Only differences then are going to be the size of the wheel hub, and the tire total width.

The difference in tire width between a 180/55 conti road attack mounted on a 5.5" (185mm wide) vs the 190/50 race tire (192mm wide) is 7mm total. Not that much of a difference. (anything over 180 a 5.5" rim will pull in, decreasing it's size... for example, a 200/50 tire is only 197mm wide on a 5.5 rim, but due to this the profile is way messed up.)

Sprocket side... appropriate clearance, with the wheel in correct alignment.




Other side though... shows the problem.. with the wider hub, pushing things to the other side offsetting the wheel, if it's lined up right you get this...



I could actually probably use a couple more mm clearance just to get the wheel perfectly lined up... getting it close pushed the tire against the swingarm at that point.

Now, I can flex the back end of the swinger to fit in the spacer. The point of contact for the wheel isn't going to flex that much though. That point is still going to rub.

This isn't even taking into consideration that stock brake arms are significantly closer to the tire than the swinger. Brake arms can be modified, or even custom made pretty easily if that was the only issue.... but, moving back to the tire clearance...

This picture shows I marked off where the widest point of the tire is by wiping off a clean spot from the grease on the swinger.



Now, lets move the wheel out and measure the clearance I have here for a stock arm...



So we have a total of 200mm clearance. That point is way to close to the cross support to get much more clearance at that point by flex. Your stuck with that if your keeping a stock swinger.

Maximum width I would suggest for that would be 180 TOTAL width for any tire... You need about 10mm clearance on both sides! Most tire sizes are going to be slightly larger in actual tire width than it's "size" that is listed when PROPERLY mounted on the right rim size. As I mentioned... My Conti sport attacks area bout 185mm wide on a 5.5" rim. Not enough clearance for the stock arm... not enough safely anyways in my opinion. And this is if you work out centering the new rim perfectly... which this one isn't as it sits.

So... what are the options that can be made to work?

Pre swingers can fit a 3.5 - 4.5 wheel. If you use a non kat wheel, they will be 1/2 wider... so your looking at a harder fit, but it will still work. Max tire size I would recomend for the tire to clear the swinger would be about 160, with a modified brake torque arm.

Post swingers can fit 4.5-5.5" rims, with a max size tire of 170 with a modified brake arm.

To properly fit a 5.5" wheel or larger with a 180 or larger tire... your going to need to make more clearance at the widest point of the tire for the swinger. The Cut/Weld option that I do offers exactly that as you can see in this pick of a post swinger modded to fit a 2002 5.5 GSXR wheel with a 200/50 tire mounted (these are even wider at the hub than the early 90s GSXR wheels).



That kick out right at the support brace gives you the room needed for the larger tires.

So... to cap that all up...

The biggest issue with a 180+ tire on the Kat... is clearance for the tire vs the swingarm. You can fit 170- on a post.. or 160- on a pre with the appropriate tires mounted to the right size rims... A 170 should be on a 5.5".. a 160 should be on a 4.5"... 150 should be on 3.5". Fit the right tire to the right rim size.

And before anyone posts... "I have a larger tire on mine without... " remember oversized tires on too small rims pull the tire in. A 180/55 tire mounted on a 4.5" rim is going to give you about a 170 - 175mm or less even total tire width... so your not really gaining anything but crappy performance and handling for your bike.

Krey

[loudnlow7484]

WOW Krey! Fantastic, detailed write-up! Why isn't this stickied somewhere?

[stretched600]

D@mn son! Talk about some h3llatious journalism!!!

[scottynoface]

WOW Krey! Fantastic, detailed write-up! Why isn't this stickied somewhere?

Big +1 to that. Then we can redirect to it 5 times a day instead of having to search it.

[Meursault]

Yeah, that post needs be stickied. Krey needs his own section, "Read this before you do anything with your life".

[stretched600]

Ok. Krey after reading this 50+ times, the ONLY question I have is did the 20mm axle go right in the kat swing or did you end up clearancing any? I read the kats have 17mm. I'm soooo ready to get a new rim n tire!

And to clarify that the big tire issue is for stock swingers ONLY?!

[Kreylyn]

Ok. Krey after reading this 50+ times, the ONLY question I have is did the 20mm axle go right in the kat swing or did you end up clearancing any? I read the kats have 17mm. I'm soooo ready to get a new rim n tire!

And to clarify that the big tire issue is for stock swingers ONLY?!

Stock size is 17mm for the Kat. Modification is needed on the adjuster slots to accept a 20mm axle, and new chain adjusters... but you can get those off of a early GSXR, RF600s are real nice adjusters, SV 2nd gen are pretty good too... chain adjusters that is.

My posting is about stock arms, yes... There are enough variations for stretched arms that I would not guess with out looking at yours first.

Krey

[skullkrazee]

wheels tires

I am new to katriders. been following a while and registered a couple weeks ago. I have read nearly everything on the site back to about '07. I bougth a 95 600 katana. it was put together of several bikes. purple front wheel, silver rear wheel, gray side fairing, red rear seat, tank and chink spoiler. blue front seat. got her running. needs tires. the ones indicated under seat are 150/80 rear and 120/80 front. what is on it is 190/55 rear and 110/80 front. all are 17 of course. its there a chance I don't have original wheels? they seem to be about 3.5" front and 4.5" rear. (by 17" naturally) if correct wheels why would anyone use a 190/55 on the rear. I will say I got it with no signals, no license plate bracket or light and no mirrors. I have accumulated all needed parts and took it for a ride today and gave it an oil change. love the little bike. just curious.
okay you can use all caps now.
thanks
skullkrazee

[Plumbcraz-e]

it has a 190 on the bike in the rear....looks like someone did some moding to it.

Please take some pictures of that rear swingarm we all want too see!

[Kreylyn]

If stright spoked wheels, they may have put post kat wheels on the pre... That's a common upgrade to get a little more on the rim sizes with little work. If that rear tire really is a 190 on a 4.5" rim... I would change that ASAP... it's way oversized for that rim.

Krey

[skullkrazee]

1995 katana

the wheels look like the not straight type.
I live pay day to pay day and will wait till my wife has a minute and use her camera phone. I work first shift and she works second so not sure when that will be. the rear tire is in bad shape and needs changed anyway.
took it for a ride and front brakes dragged on way back and stalled and dropped bike. my right calf and left big toe are complaining. not sure if the wheel cylinders are sticking or if I over filled it or if a hose is bad. bled pressure off and lugged it home in second gear. didn't want to run after I dropped it in the dark on u.s. highway one 1.
thanks guys.