My Official B12 Engine Swap Thread

[SKNL2]

After having completed Phase 1 (getting the B12 engine out of the donor bike), Phase 2 begins (getting the 600 powerplant out of the recipient bike).

I envision this thread as a fairly detailed How-To on how to complete an engine swap along with all the obstacles and solutions. I would like it to be what I wished I had access to when I was looking this transplant in the face -- a step-by-step guide. It will take place in real time with nightly updates. By nightly updates, I mean each time I work on the bike, I will write it up ASAP afterward. I do have a full-time job, you know.

I don't know it all, but I do know how to document what I don't know.

So, let's begin with a couple of thousand words:

Here's the donor bike on the operating table:


And the new heart ready to install:


I won't get into how to take the Bandit motor out. I figure most who do this mod didn't have a complete running Bandit to rob the engine from. Mine is a fairly unique situation.

Do yourself a favor and start by building (or buying) a table or stand for the bike. It really helps you work on the bike by raising the work to a natural level. Nothing is worse than being on bended knee for hours at a time. My table is 72" long, 40" wide and 33" tall. I was able to drive the bike right up onto it without a problem. The extra width is handy when you put a tool down or drop a fastener. It doesn't fall as far and you don't have to reach as far to pick it up.

Stay tuned...the Katana is on the operating table next....

[gobigorange189]

sweeet. good luck w/ the build!!!

[scottynoface]

That's a good lucking Bandit. You should definitely be able to get good money from parting. Subscribed

[Breeze]

Awesome.. I look forward to watching along with everyone else as you operate. If I may, a couple of things you'll need to do as you go along. I'll try to remember everything however, i'm old ya know and will fill in as I remember things.

Be sure to swap the breather covers.You will need to remove the stock one from your B12 and replace it with the stock one from your 600.

In prepping the Katana frame for insertion of the B, take the time to carefully bend back the mounting tabs for the oil cooler. They will be in your way. That was one of the major pain in the butts we had.

Also, if you intend to do anything on the top end such as check valves or adjust them, do so BEFORE putting the B up on the hole. You wont be able to do this once the B is in the frame.

Be sure to check the thread I had going for the Ohio Meet and Swap.I'm sure i've missed something but i will follow along and make notes as you go. You have my number and i'm sure that Phil can fill in a blank or 2 for you as well.

The best of luck with the transplant. I also have a lot of photos from the swap we did.If you need them just shoot me a PM and i'll send em to ya or give you access to them.

[philwecksr]

+1 to everything breeze said.

On another note, any idea the history of that bandit engine? I looks like you have a silver alternator, which would imply to me that it does not belong with the engine, at least not from the factory. That's the only thing really holding my project back right now (that and time).

Is that a bandit alternator or a kat alternator? do you know? did you swap the drive gears?

[SKNL2]

Thanks for all the support, guys.

So far as I know, the alternator is stock. I got the bike as a whole unit. It was unmodified and bone stock. If it'd been replaced, I wouldn't know.

With the rain the past few days, I haven't been able to ride the Katana down to the operating room. It is ready however, as you can see here:



You can see the Bandit's skeleton under the table.

In prepping the B12 engine, I should mention the PAIR system. It is an emissions thing on my motor (03 Bandit 1200) that can be removed totally. Everything I have read about it says removing it causes no ill-effects whatsoever. You have to have some block-off plates for the holes it leaves behind. They are available to buy or you can make some. I chose to make some. Still working on them so photos are to come. Here's a photo of the holes we're trying to cover.

You can see the inboard PAIR is still connected to the engine and the outboard one is gone. I am using 1/8th inch aluminum flat bar to make my blockoff plates. I don't have a CNC machine so I have been using the bench grinder at work and my Dremel for finer cuts. Working pretty well so far. I'll take some photos when finished.

So for now, I am just waiting on fair enough weather to ride the Katana to the storage unit. Should be there by the end of the weekend.

[kidblooper]

better you than me.. but thats why i wont enjoy the hp that you do.. Best of luck with the project.. please let us see and hear it with a video or somthing when ya get done

[ThAzKat]

so far so good from here! What parts might you have left from donor bike? Rearset??

I see a B12 frame hiding under the ER table

[tone]

Looking good fella

A couple of points fyi .... later (2nd generation) b12 engines did have a silver alternator & the style of it changed at some point too not sure which years as things differ slightly between the us & the uk

Theres no problem with removing the pars system & you can simply cut off the pipes & braize over the holes then refit as blanking plates which is easier than making new plates imo

cheers tone

[Shifty]

Nice, anxious to see more! Subscribed!

[SKNL2]

Work resumes...

With the holidays out of the way and some decent weather in the works, I have been able to resume work on Frankenbike. I'll just get to it.

While pulling the Katana apart, some things have come to my attention that may cause some trouble:

1. The dimensions of the oil coolers are different between bikes (obviously). The Katana's oil cooler is 4.5"x16.5"= 74.25"². The Bandit's oil cooler is 6.5"x13.5"= 87.75"². That's a lot of area difference!




The difference in size, while a concern, isn't the problem really. The difference in dimensions is the problem. On the Katana frame, the tabs to mount the oil cooler are too wide to hold the taller and narrower Bandit oil cooler. The mounting bolts are the same distance apart, but the lower side of the cooler would be unsupported.
The question then is, would the measly Katana cooler handle the Bandit's needs? I don't do a lot of riding in traffic, so stop-and-go traffic isn't a concern. Also, to those that have already done the swap, what'd you do to solve this problem?

2. The carbs on the Katana are 32mm versus the 36mm carbs of the Bandit. The difference in the intakes is abviously pretty big. The difference in the boots where the carbs attach to the airbox is big, too. About this big:

This is a photo of the Katana carbs. The caliper shows the outside diameter of the Bandit's carb intake. The airboxes are definitely shaped differently.

So, the question here is, am I stuck using some sort of pod setup like a K&N rig, or will the Bandit's airbox fit into the Katana? I tried taking the boots out of the airboxes and switching them up, but that would require cutting out the holes in the Kat's airbox to accept the larger boots. Any ideas?


3. The sprocket cover and clutch actuator mechanism on these two bikes is different. The Katana uses a cable actuated clutch. The Bandit uses a hydraulically actuated clutch. The Bandit also mounts its shift pedal on the rearset, not the sprocket cover. This makes it damn near imposible to use the hydro clutch mechanism on a Katana. Unless you fabricate a shifter post onto the Bandit's sprocket cover, you're cabling it.

Katana's setup. Notice the post that the shift pedal is mounted on.


This is the Bandit's sprocket cover. Notice the lack of a post for the shifter or even a place to put one. Also, notice the difference in the hydro clutch mechanism and the cable one on the Katana.

So the questions here are: Will the 02 Katana's sprocket cover match up to the 03 Bandit's bolt pattern? And would there be a relatively easy way to drill and tap the Bandit's cover and put a shifter post in it? Is that a possibility?


Overall, it was a productive day. I would have rather it not have been producing problems, but I am sure some of the B12 transplanted bikes know about all this and have answers at the ready. Right? Anyone?

[philwecksr]

Here's what I've learned so far...


1) According to SweetLou the katana cooler will do fine. He was running that on his swap and didn't have any over heating issues, and he's from the south!

2) My swap is going to run pods of some sort. While it will likely be a PIA to tune, I dont' feel like custom fabbing an airbox or cutting my kat's stock box to bits. I was planning on running an Ivan's or Holeshot jet kit anyway, and holeshot makes one for the bandit engine with pods in mind.

3) My plan is to use the katana cover. There was another swap out there (user name was d00d or something like that) and he did use the bandit cover. He fab'd the shifter mounting peg onto the cover like you had imagined. I don't remember how exactly but I saw his post recently and he documented it pretty well. I'll see if I can find the thread for you.

Found some... Threads of note:

http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=66831&page=4

http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=62416&highlight=bandit

[SKNL2]

Phil, you must have much better search button skills than I.

I think I may try to use the Bandit cover for the clutch problem.

I really dislike the idea of having to use the pods. Was hoping to be able to stick to the "bolts right in" mantra I read so much about when researching this operation.

The oil cooler I'll go ahead and agree with Lou and Ron and say is a non-issue.

Back to the OR tomorrow armed with better knowledge. Thanks, Phil.

[mreedohio]

great info sknl2 and phil

[JTstyle]

subscribing...