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Turbo Time

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  • Turbo Time

    Yeah that's right, here we go again. The mythical Katana turbo that someone always makes a thread on then never finishes.

    GT15 T15 Turbo
    -Should start building boost by 3,000rpm and max at 6,000rpm

    Snow performance stage 1 water methanol kit
    -Boost controlled, a substitute for an intercooler

    Scavenger oil pump
    -Standalone oil system to preserve the oil pressure from the main oil gallery

    Rear low profile oil cooler
    -Circular and hides under the seat

    Tial 38mm wastegate
    - (. 03)bar spring

    Boost pressure switch
    -to trigger the dynatek 2000 ignition system to pull timing


    My friend is asking for $220 to weld up a exhaust manifold, down pipe and intake plume.

    Plan is for 4.3lbs of boost @11:1 compression with water meth injection. Should make about 12hp per lb of boost

    Current set up.

    Bandit 1200 1157 block

    WISECO 81mm 1216cc forged pistons 11:1 compression

    Gsxr intake cam

    Barnet clutch springs

    3ohm dyna coils

    Dynatek 2000 ignition system

    Thoughts , questions and concerns?
    Last edited by Tekgnome; 07-10-2017, 02:10 PM.
    Tekgnomes Crazy Custom Fighter
    The Screaming Banshee <

    Big Bore B12 swapped madness


  • #2
    Thoughts...yeah, fuel injected or carb'd ?
    My Katana-1100 17" wheel swap
    http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=136894

    Comment


    • #3
      Definitely going to be a blow through setup, at most I'll see 6psi. Here's hoping I won't run in to to many carb related issues.

      Everything should be reasonably cheap, I'm calculating $1500 in parts


      Here is some Theoretical Hp numbers 202hp @ 6psi
      Last edited by Tekgnome; 07-10-2017, 08:03 PM.
      Tekgnomes Crazy Custom Fighter
      The Screaming Banshee <

      Big Bore B12 swapped madness

      Comment


      • #4
        I believe the key to boosting a carb is getting a turbo that builds boost late in the rpm range. That way its not pressurizing the bodies at idle or when the butterflies are partially open. There was one guy on here that successfully boosted a carb'd kat, 5psi I believe. Use the search function or maybe someone else can point you to it.
        But, other than that. Don't you have high compression pistons now ? If so, you may want to scrap the idea. I think you had a better idea last week, with the nitrous. Really in my honest opinion, I think naturally aspirated is the best thing for you. By the time you spend all this time & money, you could have a real super sport and save yourself the headache.
        EDIT: Also, because its a oil cooled motor, that turbo excesive heat will break down that fancy engine you've got there. Way faster than a liquid cooled bike would. Atleast with NOS you get a inner cooling effect.
        Last edited by katanarider; 07-10-2017, 08:16 PM.
        My Katana-1100 17" wheel swap
        http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=136894

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by katanarider View Post
          I believe the key to boosting a carb is getting a turbo that builds boost late in the rpm range. That way its not pressurizing the bodies at idle or when the butterflies are partially open. There was one guy on here that successfully boosted a carb'd kat, 5psi I believe. Use the search function or maybe someone else can point you to it.
          But, other than that. Don't you have high compression pistons now ? If so, you may want to scrap the idea. I think you had a better idea last week, with the nitrous. Really in my honest opinion, I think naturally aspirated is the best thing for you. By the time you spend all this time & money, you could have a real super sport and save yourself the headache.
          EDIT: Also, because its a oil cooled motor, that turbo excesive heat will break down that fancy engine you've got there. Way faster than a liquid cooled bike would. Atleast with NOS you get a inner cooling effect.
          11:1 is pushing it but I can pull a decent amount of timing with the dyna ignition system via a boost pressure switch.

          I was looking at a GT15, should start spooling around 3-4k and max around 6k

          4-6lbs of boost, the smaller the better.

          Ive read through a few threads and I'm going to attempt to use a water to air intercooler hidden or a smaller air to air intercooler up front.

          The turbo will have its own separate oil system. I don't plan to use the block at all. No tapping the oil gallery, no drain, just a Standalone oil pump, a low profile cooler and a small oil Reservoir

          Worst case I'll give cosmetic a call and buy a double thick 81mm bore gasket and lower the CR to 10:1

          I like the idea of nitrous but it's expensive in the long run and unreliable

          I've been debating on going for a set of 38 RS Flatslide Carb's but maybe some CV 38's would be better in this case
          Last edited by Tekgnome; 07-10-2017, 10:08 PM.
          Tekgnomes Crazy Custom Fighter
          The Screaming Banshee <

          Big Bore B12 swapped madness

          Comment


          • #6
            Your not going to be able to boost with that compression ratio, you'll blow that motor up.
            "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset you when I called you stupid. I thought you already knew..."
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            • #7
              There seem to be a few guys with boosted bandit 600's with 11.3:1 compression that are running 6lbs fine?

              I would guess the key is in the tune, and setting up ignition to pull timing at the proper boost level

              I was planning on using a (. 03)bar spring in the wastegate whitch is roughly 4.3lbs of boost

              running 4.3 PSI of boost at an altitude of 500 feet. My B12 motor's static compression is 11 :1. At this boost level and altitude my effective compression ratio is 14.12 :1, and without altitude correction my compression ratio would be 14.22 :1.

              Obviously 14:1 is a bit high for the street

              I know nitrous is a lot safer as a form of power additive, well see where I go. I might do a second 1216 engine and run busa pistons and rods @ 8:1 CR
              Last edited by Tekgnome; 07-11-2017, 04:46 AM.
              Tekgnomes Crazy Custom Fighter
              The Screaming Banshee <

              Big Bore B12 swapped madness

              Comment


              • #8
                Okay

                New plan, I just scored on a 1992 gsxr 1100 with a bad #2 piston

                Its a complete bike for $800 with a clean title, seller is holding and I'm picking it up next weekend

                I'm going to throw my 1216 engine in to the gsxr frame and rebuild the 1127 next year for the kat.

                I'm thinking

                Hayabusa pistons and rods
                -81mm and I get to bore the scoring out of the cylinder wall

                Block spacer

                Valve springs

                Retainers

                Heavy duty cam chain

                Manual cam chain tensioner

                Top end oiler
                -not a shitty cam link, I mean a real top end oiler

                Lock up clutch

                Gt20 turbo

                Tial wastegate

                Small intercooler

                9.5:1 compression

                Standalone oil pump and radiator for the turbo

                Dynatek ignition system

                Boost pressure switch to pull 16* of timing or so

                10-15 lbs of boost depending on exact compression and intercooler set up

                180-225hp goal
                Last edited by Tekgnome; 07-12-2017, 02:56 PM.
                Tekgnomes Crazy Custom Fighter
                The Screaming Banshee <

                Big Bore B12 swapped madness

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just the aluminum frame is going to be like picking up an additional 50 horse power. Love my Kat, but its still small and heavy.
                  My Katana-1100 17" wheel swap
                  http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=136894

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by katanarider View Post
                    Just the aluminum frame is going to be like picking up an additional 50 horse power. Love my Kat, but its still small and heavy.

                    I think I'm going to turbo the Katana and not not the gsxr.

                    I kinda want to keep the gsxr for commuting to work since it's lighter and more fun on the twisters and convert the Katana to a street strip bike.

                    I was thinking about picking up a dot head for the 11:1 CR motor and bumping up the CR a little bit more and using the bandit head to replace the botched head that piston #2 decided to become one with that's currently in the gsxr.


                    The frame best for twisties I won't turbo, because hitting boost during an aggressive lean in = death. You have to respect turbo bikes, it's probably the reason why they don't make them. Boost mid turn is probably not a good idea

                    The Katana frame being steel should help keep the front end down and reduce frame flex from a high power turbo build. I can adjust the R6 shock to be stiff for a more planted launch and I'm already running adjustable lowering links, I just need a 10" swing arm extension


                    I'm getting a hell of a deal for a complete gsxr 1100 with a good bottom end all for $800.
                    Last edited by Tekgnome; 07-12-2017, 07:30 PM.
                    Tekgnomes Crazy Custom Fighter
                    The Screaming Banshee <

                    Big Bore B12 swapped madness

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Nice!!! Looks like you're doing it right with the parts selection. Although I'd consider megasquirt to give you tunability.

                      I had a snow kit on my Grand National. 30psi in 3rd and 4th gear on 93 pump gas. Make sure the reservoir is big enough. I used the washer fluid bottle. I ran denatured initially before switching to methanol based washer fluid. The BMW stuff worked well.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RobertTravis View Post
                        Nice!!! Looks like you're doing it right with the parts selection. Although I'd consider megasquirt to give you tunability.

                        I had a snow kit on my Grand National. 30psi in 3rd and 4th gear on 93 pump gas. Make sure the reservoir is big enough. I used the washer fluid bottle. I ran denatured initially before switching to methanol based washer fluid. The BMW stuff worked well.
                        I'd love to convert to efi but I lack the knowledge to do so.

                        There are a few threads here where people have done it so I might attempt it with a set of 2002 gsxr 1000 throttle bodies and a MS2

                        Its a lot of extra work but it would be nice to be able to actually tune and have a real timing curve, rather than have a timing button that pulls boost when it builds a set PSI


                        The water meth will probably be a 1 gallon tank and using the smallest nozzle available, I dont actually plan to tune for the water meth, I'm just using it as an additive to help reduce the intake temps.

                        Realistically I'd like to make the turbo have a stand alone oil system with a dedicated pump, a small reservoir and a small radiator. I dont like the idea of a turbo heat soaking the engine. Thats something that I'll have to work out down the line though.



                        I'm picking up the GSXR next friday, I'll be able to break in to the 1127 and see how bad its fucked.

                        I need to decide if I want to use stock busa pistons and rods or spend $1000 on entry level H beam rods and Forged pistons. I'm not really aiming for that much power (Id like 200) but I dont want to throw a rod on the other hand.
                        Tekgnomes Crazy Custom Fighter
                        The Screaming Banshee <

                        Big Bore B12 swapped madness

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No disrespect, so pardon me. But, all that shit you talk about putting on the bike; turbo, intercooler, stand alone oil system, radiator, gallon of meth, mega squirt and the kitchen sink. Well, all that bullcrap adds weight and takes away from areodynamics. You might as well just buy a big heavy military 4x4 and race it. If your goal is to actually go fast, then do it... Logically, not theoretically.
                          Remember, its a 500lb bike to begin with. Add that crap your talking about, now its a 600lb tank that overheats at every stop light. I still say NOS is the best route, if anything.
                          My Katana-1100 17" wheel swap
                          http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=136894

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by katanarider View Post
                            No disrespect, so pardon me. But, all that shit you talk about putting on the bike; turbo, intercooler, stand alone oil system, radiator, gallon of meth, mega squirt and the kitchen sink. Well, all that bullcrap adds weight and takes away from areodynamics. You might as well just buy a big heavy military 4x4 and race it. If your goal is to actually go fast, then do it... Logically, not theoretically.
                            Remember, its a 500lb bike to begin with. Add that crap your talking about, now its a 600lb tank that overheats at every stop light. I still say NOS is the best route, if anything.
                            I'm going to throw my forged 1216 11:1 engine in to the gsxr frame and rebuild the 1127 GSXR block next year for the Turbo katana.

                            The 1216 11:1 Bandit engine isnt going anywhere. The plan is to run spray with the GSXR, its already running an 8" over arm with links, and Ive got a MPS quick shift for it.


                            The turbo katana, I can take my time with and use it as a learning experience.

                            I think its possible to build a reliable 200whp turbo 1216 that still functions as a street bike with out over heating.

                            I'm debating on if I should rear mount the turbo, i wont make nearly as much power as a normally mounted system would but the intake temps would be a lot cooler. Its nothing new and its been done before on different motorcycle's and still made insane power.


                            Like this ZX14 that made over 300 to the wheel.


                            Tekgnomes Crazy Custom Fighter
                            The Screaming Banshee <

                            Big Bore B12 swapped madness

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I've been told by a member here "suzukiray" that he can build a 200-hp natrally aspirated kat that will survive the street. He's not been active for a while, I believe. But anyway, I'd look around and try that first. I've been down the turbo road with my cars, and I didn't like it. Just sayin
                              EDIT: suzukirays public profile:
                              http://katriders.com/vb/member.php?u=8140
                              My Katana-1100 17" wheel swap
                              http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=136894

                              Comment

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