[Badfaerie]

because pushing the handle bar is the most effective way. If I have to do an emergency dodge I push the handle bar. I dont have time for moving my body or *** or feet or anything, pushing the handle bar is the most effective way to turn. and easiest way to learn. if hes thinking about moving feet and body and what not hes got too much going on for riding a bike on the street.

I dont know why this discussion is going on, push the handle bar and the bike turns. its simeple , safe and the way to do it.

Here's the deal, when you push against the foot pegs it starts a chain reaction of body movements, pushing against the handlebars is one of them. It's the same thing you are doing. Some people learn things different ways, so there are different methods of teaching the same thing. In the end it's about getting the bike through the turn, if in your mind you are pushing the inner bar and in my mind I'm pushing against the peg, as long as we are doing the same thing (which we are) it's a valid method.

There are other tricks for riding that you don't take offense with. I know everyone here will tell you to "look through a turn" and talk about "target fixation". This is the advice because by nature our bodies follow our heads. We are going to steer to where we are looking without full conscious effort. I don't see anyone saying "That's stupid you need to ...[break down the details of the body mechanics involved]" that's because you don't have to, looking through the turn will make the rest happen.

Counter steering is vital, you can't ride without out. Every one learns differently though and you shouldn't call some one else's learning process or teaching devices stupid or moronic. Just because it's not what clicks with you.

[mammut89]

Ive said what I wanted to. whatever works for you.

Im not the one with steering problems.

[steves]

I thought the question was about a tire

[caligxr]

+1

[STULER]

Here's the deal, when you push against the foot pegs it starts a chain reaction of body movements, pushing against the handlebars is one of them. It's the same thing you are doing. Some people learn things different ways, so there are different methods of teaching the same thing. In the end it's about getting the bike through the turn, if in your mind you are pushing the inner bar and in my mind I'm pushing against the peg, as long as we are doing the same thing (which we are) it's a valid method.

There are other tricks for riding that you don't take offense with. I know everyone here will tell you to "look through a turn" and talk about "target fixation". This is the advice because by nature our bodies follow our heads. We are going to steer to where we are looking without full conscious effort. I don't see anyone saying "That's stupid you need to ...[break down the details of the body mechanics involved]" that's because you don't have to, looking through the turn will make the rest happen.

Counter steering is vital, you can't ride without out. Every one learns differently though and you shouldn't call some one else's learning process or teaching devices stupid or moronic. Just because it's not what clicks with you.

Pushing down on the peg will not nessasarily drop the bike into a counter steer. i can put my throttlemeister on cruise control and ride no handed through corners. i just "push my foot down on the peg". My hands are no where near the bars to initiate a "proper" counter steer, cause that would involve using my hands. this is my point. If your going to ride a motorcycle, do it the proper way.

and yes steve, this was about a tire. sorry for the thread jack

[Kreylyn]

Pushing down on the peg will not nessasarily drop the bike into a counter steer. i can put my throttlemeister on cruise control and ride no handed through corners. i just "push my foot down on the peg". My hands are no where near the bars to initiate a "proper" counter steer, cause that would involve using my hands. this is my point. If your going to ride a motorcycle, do it the proper way.

and yes steve, this was about a tire. sorry for the thread jack

Good grief...

You guys are saying the same damn thing, stop argueing over it.

You have 4 points your contacting the bike primarily... 2 feet, 2 hands. If your "pushing" on the peg , your pulling the oposite bar, pushing the same side bar for leverage. It's basic body mechanics.

It's THE SAME THING......

How ever you want to "finess" the bike logically through your mind, doesn't really matter.

Nothing worse than several people argueing over an internet agreement...

Krey

[loudnlow7484]

Good grief...

You guys are saying the same damn thing, stop argueing over it.

You have 4 points your contacting the bike primarily... 2 feet, 2 hands. If your "pushing" on the peg , your pulling the oposite bar, pushing the same side bar for leverage. It's basic body mechanics.

It's THE SAME THING......

How ever you want to "finess" the bike logically through your mind, doesn't really matter.

Nothing worse than several people argueing over an internet agreement...

Krey

I think the manual transmission comparison was a pretty good one. If you tell somebody to let off the clutch and hit the gas at the same time, they might be able to get it started moving (probably in wheel-smoking fashion), but unless you actually explain what each pedal does, they aren't going to be terribly good at it.

Same situation here. If you just tell them how to make a bike turn, they aren't going to learn anything, and won't be able to progress any further. Giving a fish vs Teaching to fish sort of thing.

FWIW - It's been several months since I've ridden, but I'm pretty sure that I keep most of my weight on the outside peg in corners. That's completely counter to the peg-pushing theory, but it's how I ride. Maybe because I started in the dirt?

[Kreylyn]

I think the manual transmission comparison was a pretty good one. If you tell somebody to let off the clutch and hit the gas at the same time, they might be able to get it started moving (probably in wheel-smoking fashion), but unless you actually explain what each pedal does, they aren't going to be terribly good at it.

Same situation here. If you just tell them how to make a bike turn, they aren't going to learn anything, and won't be able to progress any further. Giving a fish vs Teaching to fish sort of thing.

FWIW - It's been several months since I've ridden, but I'm pretty sure that I keep most of my weight on the outside peg in corners. That's completely counter to the peg-pushing theory, but it's how I ride. Maybe because I started in the dirt?

Riding style and how you "learned" will definately effect your outlook on it. People will describe things differently all the time, even though they are talking about the same thing. That's kinda the point I was getting at.

But as for the weight on the "outside" peg of a turn... I can assure you for "My" riding style (no commenting on good/bad anyone elses) that in this instance, almost all my foot weight was on the inside peg...., with the left leg "hooked" on the seat to keep me in position.

http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?pi=0QAK00ZJ050278&po=278&pc=1521

If I wasn't putting so much weight on the pegs, my legs definately would not have been as sore as they were for 3 days after that ride...

Krey

[curseboy]

the push the outside peg in the turn creates torque across the body to push the inside bar. This technique feels better to me as it allows me more control if I need to stand up the bike. No matter which peg you push, no other input has more effect than the bars, either pushing the inside or pulling the outside (or even better, doing both in a smooth "rowing" motion)

[STULER]

push the handlebars. end of discussion lol

[jjhussell]

I just read through the whole thing and I agree with Krey. Most of the people were arguing the same point. Your feet really don't matter as far as getting the bike to make turns when you are first starting out. I saw a guy that put his leg up on an extended frame slider because he couldn't bend his knee. He was turning the bike just like the rest of us. He couldn't use that leg to support his weight in turns. Counter steering is critical. Even people who "don't do it" really do it. The OP may be too caught up in what he is doing. I have a friend that started out riding and was super stiff and scarred of moving the bars at all. When he started to loosen up his turning felt better and he enjoyed riding much more.

Now for the tire issue. Krey did the best write up I have seen on explaining the tire deal in a while. If you have a flat spot your tire will feel different. If you get a new tire and are not using it to carve corners all the time it will have a flat spot in about 1k miles (some more some way less). If you get a new tire it is going to feel like heaven. They always do. It is just the way things are. I guess the point is that if your tires aren't bad (worn to the point they don't have much grove left) you don't need to change them. You may want to change them just to be learning on better tires. The tires that came with my bike had flat spots. They sucked compared to the way new ones feel, but I noticed that at every tire change I think dang those last tires really were crappy.

[cintidude04]

I guess the point is that if your tires aren't bad (worn to the point they don't have much grove left) you don't need to change them. You may want to change them just to be learning on better tires.

An exception to this would be if you do any wheel swaps or get a 'new to you' bike. Last season I swapped to post wheels; saw the tread was almost untouched, maybe less than 1000 miles on them, so thought nothing of it. Always kept up in rides with bigger bikes and didn't have a problem in the corners. After reading through some older threads as per my usual nightly routine, I realized my tires were approximately 5 years old. Decided I had to get some fresh rubber and scrub them in before the rally and what a difference. The confidence I gained going from the dunlop I received with the bike to the pilot power I recieved with the wheel swap was nothing compared to the confidence in corners I gained with the fresh rubber on the pilot power 2cts.

[jjhussell]

An exception to this would be if you do any wheel swaps or get a 'new to you' bike. Last season I swapped to post wheels; saw the tread was almost untouched, maybe less than 1000 miles on them, so thought nothing of it. Always kept up in rides with bigger bikes and didn't have a problem in the corners. After reading through some older threads as per my usual nightly routine, I realized my tires were approximately 5 years old. Decided I had to get some fresh rubber and scrub them in before the rally and what a difference. The confidence I gained going from the dunlop I received with the bike to the pilot power I recieved with the wheel swap was nothing compared to the confidence in corners I gained with the fresh rubber on the pilot power 2cts.

I think this really goes back to the new (fresh rubber) tires will always feel better. It is truly amazing how much brand new tires affect a bike.

[cintidude04]

That and that tires have a use-able lifetime, whether there is tread on them or not.

[jjhussell]

+1

When tires get old (age not miles) they get hard. That means you loose traction and the tire doesn't flex.

I guess without seeing the guys tires I should recant my old statement and say just put new ones on. It can't hurt, except your wallet if you didn't need them.