Riding that preserves 2nd gear?

[stephenspann27]

I've owned sport bikes off and on for about 4 years. Within every group of riders I've ridden with there is always one guy who is currently having, or has had transmission problems, and its usually 2nd gear. I know this is more common on certain bikes (early '00 R6s to name one). I've also read that it is pretty common on Pre Katanas. I recently bought a non-running '89 750 that I got running after a week of carb cleaning. The thing I was anxious about was making sure 2nd gear didn't slip, and luckily it seems fine. A buddy of mine bought a wrecked RF900. The bike had been sitting about 10 yeasr (just like my katana) and my friend put the motor in his RF600. He only got about 1k miles out of it before 2nd gear started slipping.

I come from a motocross background so I have a habit of being hard on transmissions, shifting under full power, with no clutch etc. Because I now own a bike that that may be more predisposed to transmission issues I"m going to change my habits.
My question is, are the failures usually the cause of abuse, or an inherent flaw in the tolerances or something? Where its a case of getting a good one, or a bad one?

[HemiKat]

My question is, are the failures usually the cause of abuse, or an inherent flaw in the tolerances or something? Where its a case of getting a good one, or a bad one?

In short.... yes. It was a bad design from Suzuki to begin with and abuse just makes the situation worse. Shifting with the clutch is the best choice, Im a firm believer that there wouldnt be a 2nd gear problem if people know how to ride ther bikes. You can also get a shift improver kit thats allows the gears to engage more positively.

[jday240]

+1 Words of wisdom from HemiKat:

In short.... yes. It was a bad design from Suzuki to begin with and abuse just makes the situation worse. Shifting with the clutch is the best choice, Im a firm believer that there wouldnt be a 2nd gear problem if people know how to ride ther bikes. You can also get a shift improver kit thats allows the gears to engage more positively.

[stephenspann27]

My bike only had 9k miles on it, (hasn't seen the road since 2001). Is this a problem that is more likely to show up on higher mileage engines, or does it seem to not matter?

[1990gsx 600]

In short.... yes. It was a bad design from Suzuki to begin with and abuse just makes the situation worse. Shifting with the clutch is the best choice, Im a firm believer that there wouldnt be a 2nd gear problem if people know how to ride ther bikes. You can also get a shift improver kit thats allows the gears to engage more positively.

were can you get said kits

[JayBell]

Factory Pro sells the kits, google it. ge the one with the spring, exhaust gaskets and the pan gasket (yes, you have to drop the exhaust and oil pan)

as for 2nd gear fail, its generally caused by a bunch of missed shifts that eventually round off the dogs on teh back of the gear.

I actually got a good look at a 2nd gear failure gear, and saw what happens.

if you fail to shift across the neutral into second with a weak, or incomplete sloppy shift, the gear is spinning when you try and bang it again.

this makes the gears clash, often bending the shift fork, or wearing teh engagement surface off the back of the 2nd gear why trying to shift while the engine is racing, and the gears arent meshed right.

you literally GRIND off the engagement surface.

2 solutions:
1. get a shift kit to help make sure you shift HARD, its just a shift detent spring thats a higher strength.

2. LEARN to CLUTCH in and shift HARD. it only goes 1 gear up, so BANG that lever up.

if you miss a shift, clutch in and let the trans settle before hitting the lever again.

[stephenspann27]

I read somewhere else that a high speed incomplete down shift will shear the dogs off the syncho. I bet that is a pretty common cause.

[buffalobill]

Not a problem, yet…

Factory Pro sells the kits, google it. get the one with the spring, exhaust gaskets and the pan gasket (yes, you have to drop the exhaust and oil pan)

Sounds like this repair can be done with the engine in the bike, Zat so?
Bill

[GSXF 600 Guy]

Sounds like this repair can be done with the engine in the bike, Zat so?
Bill

Yes, it can be done with the motor in. I put it in my Post VERY easy.

[JayBell]

yes, shift can be put in, pre or post, fairly easy.

the second gear fix requires dropping the engine, and spliting the cases.. i think its something like 28hr shop time listed for a trans fix. Cheaper to find another engine.

[buffalobill]

Another used engine?

yes, shift can be put in, pre or post, fairly easy.

the second gear fix requires dropping the engine, and spliting the cases.. i think its something like 28hr shop time listed for a trans fix. Cheaper to find another engine.

True, however, another used engine would come with it's own issues.
Bill

[stephenspann27]

True, however, another used engine would come with it's own issues.
Bill

Most commonly a bad 2nd gear

[steves]

True, however, another used engine would come with it's own issues.
Bill

Potentially. But if it's less broken than your current motor... you are likely in better shape.

In the 98+ Suzuki "redesigned" the transmission so the rate of failure is much lower.

[mammut89]

I think changing the gear at the right RPM helps but that just my thoughts without any sources to back me up. if you rev up to 9000rpm you better shift it right away. dont clutch -> let go of the throtte -> shift. if you let it down to 2000 rpm again and then shift bad things are going to happen..

[DHolzwarth]

Factory Pro actually makes TWO Katana kits. One is simply a replacement for the stock detent spring. The other kit includes a new arm and bearing in addition to the spring. Both kits include oil pan and exhaust gaskets. etc, because the exhaust and pan has to come off.

I installed the spring only kit this spring. Straightforward remove/replace, although it was a little fiddly finding a technique that got the new spring back in place.

The new spring is significantly larger and stronger than the one it replaces. So, it follows that significantly more force is now required to shift gears in my pre-750. This is possibly due to the fact that the light OEM spring is also 17 years and who knows how many shifts old. I do know that it seemed to me I was missing a lot more shifts last year, but I haven't been on the bike as often as I used to be the last few seasons. Maybe my technique needs work too.

But, be aware that this effects more than second gear. All changes now require more force, or, said differently, a more deliberate approach to changing gears.

I don't know if I had to make this mod, and, if given the chance to do it again, I probably would have purchased the "pro" kit with the new detent arm and bearing. (I didn't know there were two versions out there when I bought mine.)

DHolzwarth