ZERO (electric) motorcycle Tested in SF by CNet

[The CyberPoet]

http://news.cnet.com/1606-2_3-50070824.html

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[Free Coffee]

Somehow I bet you'll have the answer to this Cyber. Is it any more "green" to ride an electric motorcycle than a gas powered scooter that can get 70 or so mpg? Discounting the fact that you're not on a scooter, so your ability to mate increases a few hundred percent.

[The CyberPoet]

Is it any more "green" to ride an electric motorcycle than a gas powered scooter that can get 70 or so mpg?

It's debatable, although in general, mass-produced power wins.

If you look at just the energy production, then the answer is yes, the power companies produce cleaner power than an internal combustion engine, in part because of the economies of scale, and in part because IC engines only produce optimal power in a very narrow RPM range (dictated by their design) and then throw away a ton of heat-product.

Once you start looking at the bigger picture, with such factors as where did the battery components come from, what does it contain and where does it go after you're done with the bike's battery (and/or bike), and questions such as if your area uses coal-powered electric plants and doesn't have the most modern scrubbers for it, it might be more of a toss-up.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[IndyGunner]

I think thats stupid. They could have made it way more efficient. Sounds like my brothers scooter.

[Kreylyn]

Full electric will reduce emisions greatly. The emision source for power would then be centralized, and the emisions can be scrubbed at the power plant instead of released into the air.

This would give urban areas alot less smog and cleanier air imediately.

Over all green not so much untill our major power sources become more green as well. It's a good start though.

There isn't a cost savings yet... It's still a little more expensive to run and maintain an electric vehichle over the years (long term) than a gas or diesel vehichle at this time. Repairs are significantly higher in cost (batteries are rated for 5 ish years, replacement is almost the cost of a new vehichle...) usually.

The quick charge limitations is probably the biggest hold up on the general populace going with an electric vehichle though... not being able to stop for 5 mins and then go another full "tank" is very limiting for people in the US. Even those who never drive more than 50 miles in 1 day for 99% of their lives, want the "freedom" in the back of their head that they can just get in and drive to where ever...

At least, that is my thoughts on the matter.

Krey

[Kfreak]

I don't like dual sport bikes. We are in the 21's century. Someone can do better, but it's a start.

[Jon2288]

Another factor to look at in this "green" topic is that the demand for electricity will go up. The price will go up as well until the demand can be offset by more electric plants, it is questionable at what types of plants would be put in to offset such a demand for an all electric society (at least for the most part electric).

Despite adding more electric plants, it should still be greener even if the only benefit is to achieve lower emissions numbers. I just wonder if the amount of emissions/environmental footprint one coal plant puts out for a city of electric cars/bikes is more than having those same vehicles produce emissions on their own?

[squiggy]

I think it was on the Discovery Channel, but there was a program with Click & Clack talking about "greener" vehicles in the R&D phases and this is one that they featured.

[Free Coffee]

There's an article in Fortune this month about five minute battery swap stations. Was an interesting read.

I've read a little bit about the negative impacts of lithium ion batteries. Apparently the mines are rough on the ecology, and there's precious little that can be done with a worn Li battery. Noth'ins easy...

[Rangerx52]

You buttholes, look at my avatar.

i HAVE an electric motorcycle. And yes its a lightning fast (haha) road monster. You gotta question bout this stuff, ask me.

If you're worried about offsetting the power consumed during charging, turn off a few lights and you've already done it.

If you drive a gas vehicle, you waste massive amounts of energy from things like ambient heat dissipation and fluidic friction, on top of the energy used to build the stupid thing in the first place. The only reason municipal power grids are concerned with chargin these vehicles, is because the more you use, the less they can sell to other cities. And consider the efficiency of an electric vehicle (~90%) vs a IC vehicle (~12%). Gasoline is an excellent source of power, and ludicrously valuable as a resource- but the companies that sell it have never cared enough to refine the technology past what has already been established. They dont look forward, they grasp at strings to milk every bit they can out of IC engines, like making hybrids- vehicles that are only viable for a narrow period of time until their fuel is obsolete.


My bike has 8 batteries- sealed Lead acid AGM deep cycle, recharged by a cycling 24v/25A brute force charger, has an RFID ignition, is silent, Fast, and has full torqu- which matches beautifully to it's damn near orgasmic power band.

If i burn out 1 battery per month, it will cost me 100 bucks each. thats less than i pay for gas now. That battery can be recycled and refilled- and if i decide i dont like that pack, i can put in any kind of battery i can think of, as long as it's the right voltage.

Car companies have been criminally offending against our environment since they began, and they're not going to stop. the only reason people are concerned about it now, is because they are selling vehicles that appeal to hippies and radicals- who have a tendancy to research before they blindly buy.

[BarMatt80]

that dude is a bad sales man if he is pushing cost of batteries will go down by the time you wear it out. Buy a bike that batteries currently costs $5k and bet it won't crap on me before 5 years, someone better be offering a nice warranty.

just like computers, computer prices really have not decreased at all. Sure a 80 GB hard drive is cheap, but harder to find. Cost per GB might have went down, but 5 years ago 80 GB was rocking for $150 or so, now you have to buy 500 or 1 TB drive for the same cost. And try to find a 80 GB that has the specs you need for that legacy machine for the $5 or so cost it should be now days.

Just bad all around as part of you marketing scheme that it will be cheaper in the future to fix.

Green is a trivial idea now I think. Most of the items that are green now days are just relocating emissions. People that are motived by green movement just want the feel good. Most I think are just smug about it. Such as driving a hybrid escallade but not recycling.

Federal and local laws will be the deciding factor. Just don't see people having the feel good feeling in going green.

But back to the bike....atleast it looks nice and not a scooter. A motoard style electric bike in the city would be tons of fun. I'd buy it for the curb jumping, etc. Sounded a big weird didnt' it? like something was loose?

[Rangerx52]

you kidding? computer parts are cheap as hell right now. RAM used to cost an arm and a leg, now i can go down to the NCIX down the street and pick up 4gigs for 50 bucks.


and an 80 gig drive's gonna cost you because its not feasible to keep making them. Thats like trying to find a replacement door for your delorean- yeah its old and the technology that made it's obsolete, but it's not going to be worth it for anyone to stock one.



yeah, and lithium sucks ***. lithium likes to explode from charging. The money is in Nickel metal hydride. My battery pack only cost me 800 bucks and i have a 5 year warrantee for each battery.

[BarMatt80]

you kidding? computer parts are cheap as hell right now. RAM used to cost an arm and a leg, now i can go down to the NCIX down the street and pick up 4gigs for 50 bucks.


and an 80 gig drive's gonna cost you because its not feasible to keep making them. Thats like trying to find a replacement door for your delorean- yeah its old and the technology that made it's obsolete, but it's not going to be worth it for anyone to stock one.

you didn't read it, cost per gb or mb or kb has gone down significant. But it costs the same.

I definately wouldn't want to be in the hardware business.

Ram is dirt cheap, use to be very pricey. Just like you said

80 gb hard drive was sufficient years ago for $150, now to get something that is sufficient is still $150. Granted you have 10x the size but it is the same when files and operating systems have grown as well.

Such as we bought a server 3 years ago for $7k (2 x dual core 3.0 GHz CPU,4 GB RAM,73.4 GB mirrored system drive,1 Emulex 4GB fibre daughter card,4 year 24x7, 4 hour response warranty), and now we bought a server that was yep once again $7k(2 x Quad Core 3.00Ghz CPU, 4 GB (2 x 2GB) RAM, mirrored 72GB hard drive, dual gigabit NICs, redundant power supplies, redundant fans, iLO Advanced pack, 5yr 24x7 4hr response time care packs). Could not get the dual core anymore, not like you'd want to. The new server is quad core over dual core, same amount of ram, but different types of ram. So really where is the cost savings? Expecially given a plain install of server 2008 is nearly 12 GB. We needed a server 3 years ago and needed one now, still the same cost, and it comes out the same on the books.

But once again try to find anything older it is expensive. But in similarity with this story, the guy says batteries cost $5k now, but 5 years they will be cheaper. NO they won't. The battery in that will probably be non existant or very pricey (que the similarities with sdram, 80 gb drives, or even eide drives or even sata with legacy power). Now fast forward 5 years, the battery that goes in that bike is yep probably still $5k, though newer and lasts longer, still $5k

[The CyberPoet]

Despite adding more electric plants, it should still be greener even if the only benefit is to achieve lower emissions numbers. I just wonder if the amount of emissions/environmental footprint one coal plant puts out for a city of electric cars/bikes is more than having those same vehicles produce emissions on their own?

The real question I have is how much does non-use trickle-charging affect the bigger picture. I'm sure if you ride daily, it's a green equation. BUT if you leave it plugged in all the time (to keep the battery topped up) and only ride once every couple months, is it actually any better?
Scratch that -- I know the answer, at least until all the manufacturers move to vapor-sealed gas tanks... MC fuel tanks leak more hydrocarbons parked that the bikes typically produce while riding... Just like pre-vapor-sealed cars from before the early 1970's (a '69 mustang parked in the sun produces about the same HC pollution levels as a 100 toyota camry's being driven at highway speeds).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[jetmerritt]

I think the electric bike could be a silent killer.

"Loud pipes save lives"

The only thing I heard out of that bike was a rattling license plate or something.

I still have the factory exhaust on my bike, but I will be going louder one day

J