sliding on sand

[ghelper]

took the wife out for a ride to night last corner before we went to get the kids hit the corner and 2 inches of sand in the turn started sliding side ways about 1 foot was able to bring it back up when the tires hit the hard pavement no damage to the bike just the toe slider on my boots stoped to make sure the wife was o.k. every thing was good finished off the night with no other problem glad I bought her full gear over the winter just to make myself feel better this was the first night she got to wear it all

[The CyberPoet]

Remember, this bit of advice applies to any time you hit sand (and many other panic-inducing situations, although not all):

Clutch in, brakes off, steer into the direction of the skid if that path is ok to pursue, otherwise steer where you need to end up. The bike should generally right itself and let you regain control unless it's really beyond a reasonable amount of tilt/steering angle.

Glad nothing came of it

It's actually good to know how to handle it on sand -- it doubles for a lot of other situations, such as hydroplaning, oil/tranny fluid/diesel on the road, ice, etc.


Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[trinc]

i disagree with the above statement. 'clutch in'

the last thing you want to do is load up the front end - it's preferable to have the rear sliding than the front !

without writting a book here: in the straights, keep a positive throttle and use the REAR brake only. in a corner ( you should be looking ahead and see the debris ) tighten your line then before you hit the debris get the bike upright as much as possible - go throught the debris - then tighten your line again to get through the corner. if your already in a corner and start to slide - don't do anything ! it's too late - any inputs you make will just make the situation worse ( well.... i would give it a little more gas )

tim

[blkpitbull]

i disagree with the above statement. 'clutch in'

the last thing you want to do is load up the front end - it's preferable to have the rear sliding than the front !

without writting a book here: in the straights, keep a positive throttle and use the REAR brake only. in a corner ( you should be looking ahead and see the debris ) tighten your line then before you hit the debris get the bike upright as much as possible - go throught the debris - then tighten your line again to get through the corner. if your already in a corner and start to slide - don't do anything ! it's too late - any inputs you make will just make the situation worse ( well.... i would give it a little more gas )

tim

I agree

[ghelper]

i was in the corner when it started to slide could not see the sand was in a dip in the corner just rolled off the gas and when i hit hard pavement and the tire grabed pulled it back up was like some kid was building a sand box in the road

[trinc]

i was in the corner when it started to slide could not see the sand was in a dip in the corner just rolled off the gas and when i hit hard pavement and the tire grabed pulled it back up was like some kid was building a sand box in the road

your lucky - rolling off the gas loads ( puts more weight on ) the front tire - which has a smaller contact patch than the rear. the natural reaction ( SR as keith code states ) is to roll off the gas. but as i stated ( depending on how fas i was going ) i would let the bike ride it out. If i was going at a good clip i would spin up the rear tire ( get on the gas ) so as the tire starts to gain traction you don't find yourself pretending to be superman ( highside )

tim

[Mojoe]

i disagree with the above statement. 'clutch in'

the last thing you want to do is load up the front end - it's preferable to have the rear sliding than the front !

how does pulling in the clucth load the front end? I can see it if you apply the brakes at the same time, but just pulling in the clutch should not do it....it should pretty much "unload" everything.
personally, I will not give any advice on this cuz the variables are too great. what may apply to one situation may not apply to the next. I have been in a situation in the curves quite a few times....and at times I have given it the throttle to regain traction, where as another time I came into gravel on the road and had to stand the bike up stright and come onto both brakes cuz the dumptruck that left it there was just pulling out of the pit where it came from. so the only advice I will give, is whatever the situation calls for at the time, don't panic.

[trinc]

i disagree with the above statement. 'clutch in'

the last thing you want to do is load up the front end - it's preferable to have the rear sliding than the front !

how does pulling in the clucth load the front end? I can see it if you apply the brakes at the same time, but just pulling in the clutch should not do it....it should pretty much "unload" everything.
personally, I will not give any advice on this cuz the variables are too great. what may apply to one situation may not apply to the next. I have been in a situation in the curves quite a few times....and at times I have given it the throttle to regain traction, where as another time I came into gravel on the road and had to stand the bike up stright and come onto both brakes cuz the dumptruck that left it there was just pulling out of the pit where it came from. so the only advice I will give, is whatever the situation calls for at the time, don't panic.

i agree it's not as bad as rolling off the throttle ( engine braking ) but having a positive throttle - torque on the rear wheel is going to remove weight from the front tire - pulling in the clutch is going to transfer some weight back to the front. ( the soft suspension makes it even more noticable )

but even beyond pulling in the clutch & holding it in, it's more likely to get someone to lock hard on the bars instead of staying loose. i also agree with your comment that there are a lot of valiables so advise is hard to give. but i think pulling in the clutch is the start of a lot of bad things so i outlined what i think is a better aproach. your 'don't panic' and my 'don't do anything' are basiclly the same thing.

tim

[midqetsex]

That's what I was thinking at first too. Pulling the clutch isn't quite like rolling off the gas because there's no engine braking occuring. Although, from my understanding, rolling on the throttle a bit will help stabilize your suspension and also gain grip where you want it (the back tire). You still may need to accelerate to avoid further disaster. This might be another reason why you don't want to have the clutch pulled in. I'm sure one of these guys will clear it up a bit.

Edit: trinc beat me to posting...mine was originally meant in response to Mojoe.

[The CyberPoet]

i disagree with the above statement. 'clutch in'

the last thing you want to do is load up the front end - it's preferable to have the rear sliding than the front !

You're right that you don't want to load up the front excessively, but unloading all the velocity inputs on the wheels (brakes and tranny inputs) should let them roll freely, regaining traction unless you are already really deep into a corner/turn or your steering is pointed off at some odd angle. I find newbies are less likely to engage in some accident-inducing behavior with that advice than by most other actions they may choose to pursue. Naturally, skilled riders will already know what to do for the situation -- as Mojoe pointed out there are a ton of variables involved.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[Mojoe]

i really don't think you can tell anyone what to do in a situation like that. first of all, it happens too fast and you will not have time at all to remember what advice was given. you can give it more throttle to re-gain traction...and it will work or it won't. it might dig in and take hold, or the back wheel could end up coming out from underneath you. you can pull in the clutch and it will straighten out....or it will dump. even a skilled rider is in a situation where it is half luck, half skill. it is one of those things where fate will be on your side that day, or it will bite you in the ass and down you go. so you pretty much have to have it happen in order to learn from it. hopefully when it does happen, you will do the right thing and all will be fine....and it will be input into your brain as "what to do" in case it happens again, although there is no garantee the same thing will work again. It could be something as simple as a couple of pebbles that turn it into a whole new situation. If you do the wrong thing...well....let's just hope the wreck isn't too bad.....and you will remember what "not to do" the next time.

as for the clutch....once you have done enough riding, you should be able to find the friction point easy enough in a situation like that. there has been a few times in my experience where it has come in handy. especially on the 1100's which have a bit more torque. it is not always easy to give just the throttle needed without giving too much. using the clutch at the same time and working the friction point can help against too much throttle.

[theKM]

...and the final advice as important as the above advice... until you have all the right reactions in muscle memory, keep your mind squarely on riding.

If you're mind is drifting, getting into a bad situation will be much more of a surprise, than if you were thinking squarely on riding and something went arwy. The more of a surprise it is, the less likely it is that you'll actually remember the sound advice you read in a book or from seasoned riders on KatRiders.com.

After laying in the ditch, I knew what I "should" have done, but my mind had wandered just before the time of incident... and my recall couldn't quite get over the surprise. When I did the wrong thing, I knew it was the wrong thing just in time to enjoy the bike try and depart my company.

[escahoe]

Had that happen to me on some loose gravel on the side of the road . NOT FUN . I put my leg out like it was sepostu do something and than i realized that I had to get the bike under control whilr my foot shoot out the back once again NOT FUN