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So, we have all heard about the accelleration/speed between the two modes of transportation... but I haven't ever heard anything about manuverability. For example, I am finally becoming confident enough to actually go FAST in the twisties (65/70 in a 35 recommended) but I was wondering if cars can do the same with a good driver, if its even close, etc. Any input? Oh, and the only cage i've owned was a '90 Grand Prix se. The only mods I did to it was adding racing stripes, which gave it an additional 55 hp. Well, not really. But it was an alright car, but I don't think It can be used as a comparison.
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Well, cars have the stability of more tread and the bilatteral stabiltiy of four wheels obviously...
(In the twisties...)
The thing with motorcycles, is that they are less forgiving...meaning, you pick your line and go for it, allowing only minor corrections for the degree of turns. For example, decreasing radial turns.
With a cage, you have more leeway and can adjust your turns even when traction is lost (ie. screeching tires, drifting, easier to brake in turns). Obviously you couldn't lose traction on a bike and not correct it easily (or at all)
And in my AWD Subie, I dare bikes to keep up in the rain, snow, or mud in the twisties.
But, bikes have an awesome power-to-weight ratio, and are better at acceleration and top speed (at a cheaper cost)
If a good biker in the twisties know's what he's doing (and it's dry out), cars are gonna be outmaneuvered easily.
(For instance, I have a 93 600 Kat, and can take my friends stock WRX in a line... but not by much....and in the twisties, if I know the road, he has no chance. If it's raining, I'd rather be sittin passenger in his car
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IMHO though, if a car had the same or better power to weight ratio, a bike has no chance in the twisties as 4 wheels provides better stability
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I can do 70-80 easily in my Fiero through some nice winding roads where the limit is <40.
The road to the golf course I work on is actually a great twisty/hilly and scenic road, speed limit is 25, I do it at about 35 in my truck, and have done it at 60+ in my Fiero. Speed on it on the Kat is slowly creeping up as I become more comfortable on the Kat, I went through it at about 35 last weekend.
Right now, I know I can manuver better in the Fiero than on my Kat, but give me a few more months of riding and it may be close
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Man I used to love Fiero's.. especially the GT model.. that's still sweet lookin!!
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It is highly dependent on the bike, the car, and the effective handling equation of each (including the driver).
You can build a car that has an effective center of gravity lower than the center of the tires (example: formula cars are traditionally built this way), and such a car should be able to out-maneuver any motorcycle on the planet simply because of this fact. You can also add down-force to help the grip exceed that. But...
Most cars on the road aren't built this way. Typical car has a center of gravity fairly high up, a suspension optimized to ride comfort rather than absolute handling, and less than stellar rubber on the ground.
On bikes, it is even rarer to find the center of gravity lower than the center of the tires (some salt-flat racers), and down-force is usually neglible if it exists at all on the bike, but the traction-control weighting is calculated differently also (you need that front tire loaded up as you going into turns to force the transition, and the angle of the forks play into it heavily as well). Given an optimized bike (magnesium or carbon fiber wheels, minimized rotational masses, heavy forward bias, good handling dynamics), and a talented aggressive rider, a bike can out-run most cars (anything shy of a true performance-oriented vehicle or pure race-car) through most turns, provided the traction is there.
So where does that leave us? Oh, yeah, the Kats. Heavy, poor quality suspension components, but very high power-to-weight ratios compared to cars and heavy front-end bias. Compared to average production cars, I think it would come strictly down to the rider and his skill level. It probably won't beat a porsche or slightly modified WRX through the curves, but it should beat an Aerostar or Ford 500 without much issue.
Cheers
=-= The CyberPoetComment
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the offramp to get to my place from the highway is 60kph....on my bike I can take it at 180-200 with no problem....same with my car.
My car is a 850 GLT Turbo and you better be good in the curves with your bike to keep up with me. For sure on the straights I am left behind, but my aftermarket supension and low profile tires give my car great handling in the twisties. I raced a vette 2 years ago on my bike, and I have to tell you, it was not a piece of cake. He gave me a rough time of it. I passed him doing about 180kph and he was rolling maybe 150kph. He gave it the gas and stayed with me....up to about 240kph he was on my ass, but we had to slow down because we came up on some traffic.
Some cages are just not so easy to beat....on the straights or in the curves. It all depends on the cage.I don't have a short temper. I just have a quick reaction to bullshit.
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Ever seen the "Top Gear" show from the UK? They have a fantastic segment on sportbikes vs. the Ariel Atom (absolutely wicked vehicle). They compare track times and handling between the bike and the Atom.
Download the video segment (about 50MB) here.Comment
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I just watched the video again; I had forgotten about the beginning of the clip where they mock middle-aged men who want to ride a sportbike (like me!). Imagine this delivered very dry in a British accent, or just download the clip. It's worth the wait.
The reality, however, is somewhat different because, let's be honest, you're middle-aged. So, you'll have a bit of a gut and that will look ridiculous in your leather romper suit. What's more, you're almost certainly going to crash so someone who you perhaps don't like very much will end up with your eyes. 
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O.k., I should really shut up....still rewatching the video of the Atom....
Ariel Atom
http://www.arielmotor.co.uk/
300 bhp
1,100 lbs (500kg)
Starts at under $37k ($53k w/ supercharger)
0-60 - 2.9 seconds
Street legal (at least in the U.K.)
Nice...Comment
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Originally posted by The CyberPoet
Geeze, I almost had to take a physics class for that. But very insiteful. thanks!Comment
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Originally posted by Selby Hahha, I posted it above also!
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I wonder how that car would fair against a 'Busa or another larger bike...
But damn, thats impressive.Comment
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Maybe Corey and I could build something like that. But use a supercharged Busa Engine. Man that would be sick.Kan-O-Gixxer!
-89 Gixxer 1100 Engine
-Stage 3 Jet Kit / KNN Pod Filters
-Ohlins Susupension
-Various Other Mods
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Lou, have you heard of the Radical 2, also from England? It has a supercharged Busa engine and an enclosed body, no top (looks like a small American LeMans series racer, an open sports car). On the Speed Channel's "Fifth Gear", the Radical beat the Atom in a one lap race on a road course. They said it was the Busa engine that out powered the Atom, although they said the Radical could have been faster if they could have warmed up the brakes.Originally posted by SweetLou
So how did the bike compare with the Atom? Dial-up service will take 5 hours and 52 minutes to download the video.Comment
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The bike was a Honda CBR600RR. The bike was faster off the line and to the first corner. The Atom blew past the CBR in the first corner and the bike never got very close again. Time difference at the finish was 4 seconds. Not sure how long the track was, tho.So how did the bike compare with the Atom?Comment
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