[Mojoe]

I look at it like this... you're basically using the rings to hone and mill the cylinder walls, right? How would you mill something in a shop - one big chunk at a time or gradually?

That question is relative. What kind of metal? You will mill off bigger chunks of aluminum than you would stainless. Mill too much, you break the tool. don't mill enough, you will overheat the tool and the part you are milling. It's all about balance.
New rings are just like that. They are designed to "cut" when first installed. Run too easy and they will wear off the cutting surface too quickly to seat properly. It is basically that simple.
I have rebuilt quite a few car engines. All were done the same way. start it up and listen to how she runs. Okay....no screeching rod bearings, so the clearence must be good. Ok...no valves smashing into a piston...so the timing is good. Once that is covered, it is just breaking in the rings.
And if you go too easy with it, it is the same as a hacksaw, an endmill, or anything else.....you will wear out the cutting tool (in this case the rings) before the proper cut was made.
I did flute grinding on taps and drills for 3 years. I learned that too little can be just as bad as too much. The cutting wheel had no problem taking off a 1/4in cut on a 3/4in tap or drill, but yet when I tried to save my first piece that was like .003 or so over, running the wheel on it again resulted in no more than burning the piece.....turning it blue.
so ya...too little is just as bad as too much.

[Mojoe]

hey guys...I just want to make it clear that I am not putting down anyone's way of breaking in an engine. I myself will have one to break-in in the near future. And I consider it somewhat of a guessing game. I am just here to debate the pros and cons of each. From what I have read and heard...and from past experiences, it just seems that being a bit more aggressive is better than being too conservative. As the link that Jackal put up, it is a highly controversial subject. I am using this debate to further educate myself as well. Any and all points you make against being more aggressive are taken into consideration....aside from Suzuki saying so. They are talking brand new bikes with different cylinder wall surfaces than a rough honed rebuild. If someone can give me documented and dyno proof that x amount of rpms for x amount of time and miles will result in peak hp and engine life, that is the way I will go. For now I am just sorting through all the opinions and sharing my own. If you express something that I feel will better my own beliefs, for sure I will use it.

sorry for highjacking your post Lou....but this is info I will need too....and I am just trying to find out what is best. debating is a good way to go to hear all the pros and cons.

[The CyberPoet]

Hey, Mojoe, does that V&H engine you've got have nikasil platings on the bores?

Just curious...
=-= The CyberPoet

[SweetLou]

I don't think you hijacked it at all Mojoe. This is the type of info I wanted, and I wanted to get a lot of peoples perspectives and opinions. I think I have figured out how I am going to do the break in on the engine, and I thank everyone for putting up the info so far. I really like that artical Jackel put up.

[WildKat]

so what did you decide ? or shouldnt we ask

[zleviticus]

The problem mojoe is that you are only thinking of ring sealing and not the over all engine (cam, pistons, rod bearings, etc) While i agree that the rings need to get worn in for sealing purposes. You neglect the fact that this normally occurs within the first 30 minutes of the initial engine running. After that the breakin is more for the pistons and bearings not the rings. I know that is the fact with VW engines. I ring is not tight in an engine in fact it can;t be it needs to move to eliminate any carbon in the ringgrove of the pistons. I guess what i am trying to say is that the ring is only ONE aspect of engine break in.

[illinoiskat]

From what I have headr bikes are a lot like cars. You don't have to follow the guidlines exactly but don't go balls out. Make sure you vary the engine speed instead of criusing down the highway at a certain RPM.

+1 on this

you dont need to stick to a percise regiment, just the general theme. Break the bike engine in for a 1000 miles. Dont cruise at one engine speed for a long period of time. Dont go 1/2 past redline for the first 500 miles. Avoid full throttle until you get close to 1000 miles on the engine. Change the oil at like 250 and 750 miles to get all the metal that shaves off the engine parts.

2nd thought what does the manual say?

[WildKat]

What I question is.. depending on how you break it in... why would you want a bike that only starts acting like you want it too, till you really get on it!! Obviously if you really get on it, the majority of the time, then its no big deal so u dont notice the difference in performance as much..

Ive ridden bikes, when I was shopping around, that you could tell the previous owner beat the shiat outta them, and most of them had pretty low miles.. and then others, road like a dream, w/ low and high miles.

To each his own

[duff daddy]

well ihave one last thing ot say, for you people who wnana beat the shit out of your motor when you first get it, go for it but when isee you, ill let you take a nap and while your sleeping let me smash you in the face with a 2x4 so you knwo how that motor feels when you kick the living shit out of it!!!

[KatanaO215]

ill stick with the recommendations of the engineers who designed them, thanks

[Junior]

ill stick with the recommendations of the engineers who designed them, thanks

...but do we really think engineers know how to ride?

[BraadaJim]

Right or wrong this is the experience I have and this is what I will continue to do to rebuilt motors. Brand spanking new motors are a different story, mainly because every component in them is new.

Years ago I worked very closely with a pro mechanic and rebuilt my 350 chevy. When we were done and it came time to break it in I asked him what was the best way and he said "Take it easy today and then drive it like you always do".... well needless to say I was baffled, no "break in"? He explained to me that vehicles break in to peoples driving habits and the best thing you can do is to break it in to your habits and keep the oil changed. Breaking it in gently and then changing to your normal habits you are not breaking it in to the stresses that it will normally see. He was a highly sought after pro mechanic so I did exactly what he told me. That motor ran like a raped ape! Too bad the rest of the truck was a piece of crap.

Fast forward 10 years.....

The bug hits me that I'd like to pick up a project. Hmmm, I wonder what ever happened to that old El Camino I got disgusted with and pretty much gave to my father to do whatever he wanted with? So I ask and the person he sold it to still has it and actually would like to sell it for $500. Only stipulation, the motor doesn't go with it. According to him it is the best running engine he has ever had and has already pulled it to go into another project!

Was it the break-in? Was it the mechanic? Probably both but at that moment all doubt as to whether I had damaged the motor by driving it my way (cocky 20 year old lead foot at the time) from day one were removed

My opinion:
The manual is not right. It gives instructions to protect the manufacturers butts and gives very conservative recommendations to reduce as many warranty claims as possible. It's not wrong, just conservative which is probably best for a brand spanking new everything.

The "hard" break in is not right. Unless you live at the track and can tear down every other run, or plan to change bikes in a couple of years slamming all the stress you can throw at a motor will result in a tired motor in a very short time. It's not completely wrong either, just a little too extreme.

Somewhere in between is the way you ride in the real world and will expect your motor to react when you do. That IMO is what you need to break it in to. You will probably do more damage to the internals of your engine in the first 30 seconds from dry the first time you start it than you will in the entirety of your break in. Frequent oil changes and keeping a motor in tune are the real keys to longevity and strength.

[kiwiman555]

Personally I plan on trusting Mr. MotoMan from the Internet with my new $8,000+ purchase!

Those pesky engineers with their "longevity" and that darn conspiracy that manufacturers want their products to "last long" and not "break" It's just a darn shame.
You'd think that the group of people who were trained and get paid to design engines for multi-billion dollar companies and for a living would know how to break it in.
But like you've said, all they want to do is protect themselves from warranty claims (Which just means they don't want their product to break, silly).

Trust the Factory break in people!
If you think you're losing gobs of power from the way you broke in your engine then I have got these pills I'd like to sell you that make you %50 stronger and give you the ability to fly.

[KatanaO215]

ill stick with the recommendations of the engineers who designed them, thanks

...but do we really think engineers know how to ride?

no, but I think they know how to engineer.

[Mojoe]

My opinion:
The manual is not right. It gives instructions to protect the manufacturers butts and gives very conservative recommendations to reduce as many warranty claims as possible. It's not wrong, just conservative which is probably best for a brand spanking new everything.

The "hard" break in is not right. Unless you live at the track and can tear down every other run, or plan to change bikes in a couple of years slamming all the stress you can throw at a motor will result in a tired motor in a very short time. It's not completely wrong either, just a little too extreme.

Somewhere in between is the way you ride in the real world and will expect your motor to react when you do. That IMO is what you need to break it in to. You will probably do more damage to the internals of your engine in the first 30 seconds from dry the first time you start it than you will in the entirety of your break in. Frequent oil changes and keeping a motor in tune are the real keys to longevity and strength.

right on....that is exactly how I feel about it.
Here is some food for thought you "easy break-in" people....and this theory has been tested and proven in the past. Go buy a pre-owned vehicle from that famous little old lady who only used it to go to church on sunday. let's say for arguments sake it has 25k miles on it and she never drove it over 50mph and the rpms always stayed under 3k. And check the compression on it. Let some cowboy buy this car and start reaching 5-6k rm consistently and driving at 80-90mph regularly, and withing a month it will be burning oil and you will see a drop in compression. I am willing to garantee this.
And I know this is a fact because I am suffering from this problem with my 2nd Kat now. My bike had 35k kms on it when I bought it 2 summers ago. It was owned by a guy who is about my age but very conservative on a bike. In fact he bought a cruiser after selling. He told me he has never redlined it or had it past 140kph. I believe him. He only toured on it with his wife mostly. Now it has 48k kms on it and it is burning oil. Not alot, but more than when I bought it....twice more approx. One of the guys from the ottawa rallie mentioned it was smoking when they were following me (I can't remember who), and others have told me the same thing. IT DID NOT DO THIS WHEN I BOUGHT IT. It is because I drive it much more aggressively than the previous owner did, but yet not as aggressively as many drive theirs. He was the original owner, btw.
Which makes me mention another point. If you do buy a used bike with anything more than 4-5k miles on it, and you are an aggressive rider who redlines frequently, then you will not be getting the great deal you think you are when you happen to find a bike that has been babied. You are better off buying a bike that has been beaten on the same way you would. Otherwise you will be needing a ring job in the near future....like I am needing now.