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Oil Temps, Oil Gauges and the JASO-police

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  • Oil Temps, Oil Gauges and the JASO-police

    As some of you know, this past weekend (including some Monday and a bunch Tuesday) I did a large number of mods, including installing an oil drain valve (same as on my Audi -- it's too cool for words), an oil temp sender & gauge (more on this in a minute), grinding out the weld seams on the exhaust headers (thanks Trinc for pointing it out!), installing an ignition advancer (thanks Keith for selling me one), etc., etc. Most of this stuff was dual-purpose -- write ups & pics for the book, plus to test some stuff.

    So tonight I jump on the bike to ride off to a friend's and lo- and behold, the oil temp guage looks all pretty and it's reading off numbers all pretty... and within three miles the temp climbs past the max temp the gauge can display, so it just scrolls "HI" on the display.

    Lessons learned over the past four days:

    (A) When getting gauges, stick to ones designed for marine or open-cockpit use specifically. Do not use regular automotive gauges -- 95% of them aren't weather/water resistant. I think I'll be sticking in a Stewart Warner marine-grade oil temp gauge next & praying the same sender can still be used. [EDIT: Stewart Warner got back to me and said "Nope, we don't have what you need either... so sorry.")

    (B) The oil in the Kats run significantly above 260 degrees F... Ambient temp was 78 degrees (F) here tonight when I rode out and I maxed out the digital gauge's range before the on-ramp to the interstate. Water cooled engines normally never see those kinds of oil temps -- even my turbo Audi doing a full-out run for Atlanta only ran to about 245 for the whole haul doing well over 150 mph. I had bought the set-up because it was supposed to go to 300 degrees -- I'm not sure if it was my misunderstanding or their misprint that made me think it was 300 degrees (C) as it's range instead of 300 degrees (F) -- and it stops saying the temp at 260 anyway (what BS).

    (C) Don't buy Cyberdyne gauges. Among other things, they have a special "set" mode that is triggered by feeding the light sense circuit at the same time as the power circuit... Since motorcycles trigger both at the same time, the gauge always goes into setting mode (and I had to do some soldering to come up with a time-delay circuit solution for that one -- again, thanks Trinc for helping with the circuit logic!).
    When I finally managed to get someone on the phone at the factory (His name was Mark, but he sounded more like a Marcy), he babbled that their gauges weren't designed for motorcycles, that they weren't rated for rain/weather (that makes some sense, although the gauge is sealed tight by design), the vibration of a motorcycle (like bikes vibrate in some way different than cars might), or the electromagnetic noise of a bike (what a crock of shite!). I had emailed them about using their gauges in a motorcycle beginning of last week and had gotten zero responses.

    PS - if anyone knows where I can get a 300 degree (C) oil temp gauge in a weatherproof design, I'd be appreciative.

    Cheers
    =-= The CyberPoet
    Remember The CyberPoet

  • #2
    I have found that (almost) anyone you talk to from any factory of any company is going to end up being a moron and full of BS. I had a Dell technician tell me (after I told her I needed a new motherboard) that the parts were "shocking eachother" and that I needed to get them to stop...

    At any rate, I'll learn from your experiences and not try to install my own oil temp sensor.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'd like to here more about the oil drain valve. I don't have much knowledge of Audi. What is it and how does it work? Are you talking about some type of bleeder valve at the drain plug?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by arsenic13
        I'd like to here more about the oil drain valve. I don't have much knowledge of Audi. What is it and how does it work? Are you talking about some type of bleeder valve at the drain plug?
        I'm really tempted to say "hey, it's in the book," but since I have gone to print yet, I'll clue you in. It's a replacement part that fits into the same space as the drain plug, contains a valve with a 90 degree petcock, and when the valve is rotated by the petcock, it opens and drains the oil. No hassles in torque settings or drain bolt removal.
        For guys like me who tour long distances, it means an oil change can be performed anywhere I can take off the lower fairing... any parking lot.... just open the valve and let some or all of the oil out (into a suitable container!), then close it and refill to full. No tools beyond the allen key to remove the lower fairing (and one day I might replace those with druz fastners, so even that requirement would be gone). The mod requires cutting away most the ridge of the oil pan that sits next to the stock drain bolt to permit the valve to be spun in, as the petcock sits off to the side and needs the clearance to turn all the way in. Since the Suzuki (Toyo Roki) oil filter is rated for three oil changes, it means you can cover significant distances without major hassles.

        edited; Oh, and I was going to start carrying these for anyone who wants to buy one... complete with full pictorial instruction sheets... but Fumoto wouldn't cut me any pricing break, so it cheaper for you to simply to buy from them.




        Cheers
        =-= The CyberPoet
        Remember The CyberPoet

        Comment


        • #5
          On a related note, I have a message in with Stewart Warner about getting appropriate gauges and sender units for our use for oil temp. Hopefully, they'll get back to me with a combination that will work for our uses (weatherproof, extremely high oil temp capability, etc).

          Cheers
          =-= The CyberPoet
          Remember The CyberPoet

          Comment


          • #6
            Mark, let me know when you find a appropriate oil temp gauge. I would really like to get one mounted up with the new engine. And also that is a great idea with the fuel spout. I may be getting with you soon on that as well
            Kan-O-Gixxer!
            -89 Gixxer 1100 Engine
            -Stage 3 Jet Kit / KNN Pod Filters
            -Ohlins Susupension
            -Various Other Mods

            Comment


            • #7
              I just saw a simular drain at Canadian Tire the other day but it's for cars. It screws in like a normal drain bolt, then you screw a hose into it, the hose as it tightens opens the valve in the drain and allows your to change your oil with out removing the bolt.
              Kyle

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by woobie
                I just saw a simular drain at Canadian Tire the other day but it's for cars. It screws in like a normal drain bolt, then you screw a hose into it, the hose as it tightens opens the valve in the drain and allows your to change your oil with out removing the bolt.
                I looked at those, which are a recent addition to the market, and decided I didn't like the construction because of the high temps the Kat's oil can be at (the system I have will work even if the oil is at 400 degrees -- just wear an oven mit when you open the valve!).

                Cheers
                =-= The CyberPoet
                Remember The CyberPoet

                Comment


                • #9
                  Like the Arby's oven mitt?

                  That damn thing annoyes me to no end!!!
                  Kan-O-Gixxer!
                  -89 Gixxer 1100 Engine
                  -Stage 3 Jet Kit / KNN Pod Filters
                  -Ohlins Susupension
                  -Various Other Mods

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You truly are strange Lou.....

                    Great mod Cyber.... will definately look into that upon return.

                    Greg

                    COURAGE -

                    Freedom is the sure possession of those alone
                    who have the courage to defend it.

                    First Sergeant(Ret) - US Army - 21 years

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Avoid the middle man and buy one of these for $23 from the manufacturer. Fumoto Valves.

                      Just need to know your thread size/pitch - easy peasy!

                      http://www.fumotovalve.com/
                      Squidbusters.com Admin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The CyberPoet
                        The mod requires cutting away most the ridge of the oil pan that sits next to the stock drain bolt to permit the valve to be spun in...
                        Was the purpose of the ridge that you remove to protect the drain bolt from road debris?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just had a question about the petcock valve.

                          Is there any chance that vibration from the bike can open it? Or say a big bump or something?
                          Kan-O-Gixxer!
                          -89 Gixxer 1100 Engine
                          -Stage 3 Jet Kit / KNN Pod Filters
                          -Ohlins Susupension
                          -Various Other Mods

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            the Oil drain Valve is awesome, but I do have a question on the pre98 750's with a full exhaust. As you know to get a full exhaust for a pre98 you buy a 98+ and do some adjustments to the header under the bike to clear the oil pan, so now the question. How tall is this valve? Will there be enough clearance? AWESOME PIECE, and I am on it.

                            As for the gauge, check denniskirk.com for their daytona digital gauge part #40-756 it is on page 439 of the new metric catalog
                            http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/produc...05&skuId=40756
                            I will check in the morning what temp it goes to, there is a F and C setting.
                            TDA Racing/Motorsports
                            1982 Honda CB750 Nighthawk, 1978 Suzuki GS750 1986 Honda CBR600 Hurricane; 1978 Suzuki GS1100E; 1982 Honda CB750F supersport, 1993 Suzuki Katana GSX750FP. 1981 Suzuki GS1100E (heavily Modified) http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=94258
                            Who knows what is next?
                            Builder of the KOTM Mreedohio september winning chrome project. I consider this one to be one of my bikes also!
                            Please look at this build! http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=91192

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by THAZKAT
                              the Oil drain Valve is awesome, but I do have a question on the pre98 750's with a full exhaust. As you know to get a full exhaust for a pre98 you buy a 98+ and do some adjustments to the header under the bike to clear the oil pan, so now the question. How tall is this valve? Will there be enough clearance? AWESOME PIECE, and I am on it.

                              As for the gauge, check denniskirk.com for their daytona digital gauge part #40-756 it is on page 439 of the new metric catalog
                              http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/produc...05&skuId=40756
                              I will check in the morning what temp it goes to, there is a F and C setting.
                              Want to see if you can't find out how water resistant it is? I was looking at some of their other products, and they advertise them as water resistant. Also looks like they pretty much just cater to the motorcycle crowd.
                              Kan-O-Gixxer!
                              -89 Gixxer 1100 Engine
                              -Stage 3 Jet Kit / KNN Pod Filters
                              -Ohlins Susupension
                              -Various Other Mods

                              Comment

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