New bike after accident - what's so *wrong* with a Harley?

[katman1975]

I was at the Suzuki dealer Saturday afternoon and sat on a bunch of bikes - SV650 (odd riding position - too exposed), GS500F (not bad, but probably lacking punch), C50 (nice), M50 (very nice), C90 (real nice), etc. Sales staff almost ignored me, didn't know much about the product, weren't really interested in selling bikes.

Then I went to the Harley dealer for the first time. Wow. Excellent customer service, truly great product too. Sat on some Dynas and Sportsters and compared to the Suzukis, they're in a different class in terms of quality. Those things are solid. The controls and plastics of the Suzukis felt very cheap compared to the metal fenders and nice controls of the Harleys. Even the bottom-end Sportster felt like a quality piece of work. And up close, they're very beautiful machines too. The manager couldn't find a sales associate to help me, so he spent over an hour with me and the motorcycles, and he knew his stuff.

Instead of dumping $7000 into something like a C50 or a SV650 (both probably closer to $6000) and have it fall to pieces after 5 years and feel cheap and average and have to deal with a bored-looking dealer and a total lack of after-sale support, I'm very tempted to go the Harley route and get me a 883 Sportster (about the same price). Fuel injected, quality built, and some real nice people at the dealership.

I'm not busting on Suzuki, but in comparing the two products, the Harley seems to win in terms of quality, build, style, great features and plain old customer experience and brand identity. The Suzuki seems to win only on price (and even then, barely so).

Guys, I don't want to make a real stupid mistake. Please tell me what I'm missing. What's wrong with Harley Davidson? Tell me why you aren't all riding Sportsters or Dynas. I feel very confused right now - remind me why I chose Suzuki to begin with. I'm in a position to go either way after my bike is likely to be totaled by the insurance company. Help guide me back to the Suzuki fold.

[StevieB]

My neighbor tells a similar story about a Kawasaki dealership and a HD dealership experience. There can be no doubt that HD trains their salespeople to be SALESPEOPLE. Nothing wrong with that.

I can only relay what I have heard from other riders: HD's are long on image, short on true quality. Those metal parts are no more durable or better-made than the similar plastic ones on a Suzi or other bike. Nothing wrong with plastic parts- your car has thousands of them. Have THOSE parts fallen off? I doubt it.

Hardleys are cruisers- and it seems like that's what you want. Personal choice- frankly, I've had cruisers, and once you pull away from the admiring glances at the stop light, there is nothing there for me to get excited about. But if you like cruisers, and you like Harley cruisers best, by all means, get one. If your favorite cruiser is a Szui, Kawa, Honda (I gotta admit, the Honda Rune is pure poetry), get that. Very unlikely you will make a stupid mistake, if you get what you want. Just make sure it is what you want, not what some well-trained salesperson, who convinced you that he is your friend after twenty minutes of answering your questions, tells you it is what you want.

Either you like the HD image, or you don't. Personally, I don't- I think there are way too many posers on Harleys- and I like the guys who are NOT posers much less than the ones that are. I can hang with someone who likes and admires the bike for what it is- not the most technologically advanced, not the fastest or most comfortable, but loaded with heritage- but I have no use for the "HD lifestyle" BS, nor those who believe they can buy a life at their local HD dealership.

[chinto]

I gotta admit, the Honda Rune is pure poetry.

I agree. That thing is awesome. I ride with a few guys that are strictly Harley guys. In the past they wouldn't consider it a bike unless it was a Harley. Last week I pulled up on my Busa and they were checking it out. We talked about the power to wight ratio and the handling aspects of the bike. Then one of them asked me how much I paid. When I told them, they both sort of looked at each other puzzled. No one said anything but they didn't need to. Their faces said it all "why am I too cool to ride anything other than a Harley"

[katman1975]

My neighbor tells a similar story about a Kawasaki dealership and a HD dealership experience. There can be no doubt that HD trains their salespeople to be SALESPEOPLE. Nothing wrong with that.

I can only relay what I have heard from other riders: HD's are long on image, short on true quality. Those metal parts are no more durable or better-made than the similar plastic ones on a Suzi or other bike. Nothing wrong with plastic parts- your car has thousands of them. Have THOSE parts fallen off? I doubt it.

Hardleys are cruisers- and it seems like that's what you want. Personal choice- frankly, I've had cruisers, and once you pull away from the admiring glances at the stop light, there is nothing there for me to get excited about. But if you like cruisers, and you like Harley cruisers best, by all means, get one. If your favorite cruiser is a Szui, Kawa, Honda (I gotta admit, the Honda Rune is pure poetry), get that. Very unlikely you will make a stupid mistake, if you get what you want. Just make sure it is what you want, not what some well-trained salesperson, who convinced you that he is your friend after twenty minutes of answering your questions, tells you it is what you want.

Either you like the HD image, or you don't. Personally, I don't- I think there are way too many posers on Harleys- and I like the guys who are NOT posers much less than the ones that are. I can hang with someone who likes and admires the bike for what it is- not the most technologically advanced, not the fastest or most comfortable, but loaded with heritage- but I have no use for the "HD lifestyle" BS, nor those who believe they can buy a life at their local HD dealership.

'

That's made me feel better. The Harley manager guy did spend a good 15 minutes talking about the lifestyle and I really wasn't interested. I don't want to go to Harley meetings. I don't want to spend a fortune on accessories. I don't want to spend a fortune on Harley clothing etc. I don't want to buy a lifestyle. I want to buy a motorcycle.

Perhaps I was sold a little too well at the Harley dealership. But then again, I felt absolutely lacking in confidence in Suzuki after walking out of the Suzi dealership - I felt like I was treated as just another paycheck, and I had no confidence in the salespeople nor the dealership after going there. None whatsoever. I'd almost rather pay more for the illusion that the Harley dealership wants me as a customer, rather than pay less for the Suzuki dealer's "if you don't want it, then f**k off" attitude.

(I also am a little hesitant to get back on a sportbike after the accident. I think a cruiser might be more in tune with my riding style. I'm not out there to break any world records for 0-60, nor see how low I can get the bike in corners).

Does anyone have experience as a Harley owner? Is an 883 just a piece of junk on wheels?

One thing that worries me slightly is that on Ebay and in the local newspaper, there's always a ton of Harley ads that are grossly overpriced and never seem to sell. This suggests that Harley is interested in selling a price-inflated product that has no aftermarket. At least the Suzukis and other Jap bikes seem to sell after a while. It seems like for every Katana on sale on Ebay, there's 250 1995 Harleys for sale for over $20,000. I mean, does anybody really think their old Harley is worth that much money?

[KatanaSoldier]

Get what you like bro. I have friends who have HDs and while it may never be my cup of tea, they love theirs.

Now make sure you have a flame suit on because when you ask for opinions, you will get them in KR!

[dirtpoor]

i ride a 750 kat and love it most of my friends ride h-d they have no problems they just ride slow

[Wade-Kat600]

The guy i ride with at work has a Harley Road King, a Gixxer 1k, and a DRZ400 - Go figure - guess sometimes you cant decide? LOL

[PitMan]

I don't own a Harley but have ridden quite a few at demo-rides and they are nice bikes. The engines are just right for what they are made to do.
The problem is they are just too expensive.
Even the metric bikes are expensive.
The 883 is the cheapest (cost-wise) Harley and is a good bike.I like the 883R , kind of the dirt-track replica. Better ground clearance than the metric bikes in it's class and a good motor, even if it is still older technology it is proven and works pretty good.
I ride a '92 Kat 750 I bought from a friend and it is a fine bike. I'll always want a Harley, because they are the only motorcycle manufacturer originating in the USA that is still in business.
If I could get a Harley for the right price I like the softtail standard for a cruiser. Now for sport riding the Buells are fun but no match for a metric.
Another thing the Harley dealers have is better financing. You can finance a few years more than the others and get a nice bike, but then you might get bored with the bike and still have 5 yrs. left on the loan . Thats a reason used bikes are so high in my opinion.

[katman1975]

You can finance a few years more than the others and get a nice bike, but then you might get bored with the bike and still have 5 yrs. left on the loan . Thats a reason used bikes are so high in my opinion.

Ah, that makes perfect sense. The manager at the HD dealership was telling me that you can finance out to 84 months. This is, in fact, a great selling ploy - they can bump up the price of their bikes because with the long financing, you hardly notice it. Plus they rake in lots more interest. Plus like PitMan says, it makes the resale market prices artificially high because people have a huge principal balance to pay off.

Now that I think about it, I might still go back and reexamine the SV650. That was a damn nice bike. Or, if I don't trust myself with that level of power (and believe me, on the Katana I rarely raised the revs above 7000 and never had any real need for that much power) I might seriously consider a GS500F - still a nice looking sporty bike but a little more tame. A GS500F could run with the average sportbike on the road except at the top end (like 80mph plus, but who does this every day?)

Or if I see a real nice Katana, I might snap it up. But I really feel punished by the weight of the Katana coupled with its high riding height. I got a damn huge squash on my leg when the bike fell on it, and I also fell from a high-up and crouched position straight onto a shoulder. Not good.

[PitMan]

I think you'd like the SV650. Nice looking ,sporty,(v-twin torque). Thats what I miss with the 750 Kat.
I used to ride a Kaw. Vulcan 800.
Then again when you hit the rpm range the Kat is made to run in I like this bike a whole lot better.The SV650 will give you good performance and easy riding.
Durn i might be talking myself into looking at an SV 1000 something now.

[Nero]

My bro's a Harley rider. I won't flame you for riding one. HOWEVER, no matter what the salesman tells you, they aren't as reliable and the average Japanese bike by a long shot.

Just be sure the 'lifestyle' is what you're after. Harley riders are a tight knit group and it's certainly a good way to make friends, but every time I see a group of them, I just think it seems really boring to ride in giant packs for hours. It's up to you.

Be forewarned; not only can Harley riders be snobbish towards Japanese bikes, many do not take kindly to sportsters and particulary that liquid cooled SOB thay have. Yes, they can be a finicky lot...

[brunnskee]

I have an 06 Katana 600 and an 07 Sportster. I love them both. Different bikes for different riding styles.

[Alley_Kat]

The 883 sportster will not get you in with the HD crowd. Espically as a guy.
I think HD is still riding an image. They can not make any changes without losing their 'core' crowd. They will not get new buyers without making the changes to compete with the metrics.
If you are looking at the C or M 50 to a sportster take them both for a drive. I liked the Suzuki better. I iked the Vulcan 900 the best though. (I looked as several cruisers before I got the Kat.)
For the most part the HD will not be nearly as fast or reliable in the long term as the metrics. the metrics will not get you in with the HD crowd when you go to bike night.

[versionpardner]

I don't have a problem with harley just a the way the company markets the "lifestyle", trying to convince 55 year old yuppie weiners that if they buy their bike they're instantly a bad mfer. However the bikes seem to be good my Dad has a heritage softail custom that I've ridden several times and yes it seems very solid but just different compared to a kat for instance. The biggest thing I notice is the vibration which makes the rearview mirrors useless. That and the clunky clutch and transmission. I guess these are things that you just get used to like anything on any bike.

Check these out too. They're good for a laugh more than any real info.http://harleys-suck.redztread.com/whs.html

http://www.goingfaster.com/angst/main.htm

[Black_peter]

OK I'm an engineer.
I have been professionally:
Welder
Machinist
Electrician
Cad designer.
I know a lot about HD. While I might not recognize a Dyna I can probably write 6000 words on the history of the company and the machines from memory.
All these things added to my years in the
Automation business tells me the last motorcycle (or motor vehicle in general) I would ever buy is a Harley-Davidson.

I have spent literally hours staring at them trying to discover how they sell for what they sell and have never approached half the price. That having been said:

If I ever built a custom bike (any kind) I would build it around a Sportster engine. Why? While is has little horse power it has good torque and can be repaired with a swiss army knife. It is also (IMO) a pretty reliable engine. It is narrow. It is a V-Twin. Most of my gripes come from the blacksmith-builds-a-tractor quality of the rest of the bike (frame, tank, brackets etc).

I would never get between a person and what they want. Buy a Taurus, buy a Porsche. Don't look to me for arguments.

It is possible that big multi-brand dealers feel that they don't have to sell because the bikes sell themselves. Hubris. Cause based on that you will buy an (IMO) inferior product.. (but after hearing your story I don't blame you)