No oil up top

[4wred]

Got my 2nd bike running,it's very noisy up top sooooo I pulled the valve cover off and found very little oil up top some of the cam lobes were bone dry.
Pulled the oil pan and checked things out,everything seemed ok but then I pulled the oil gallery plug out the right side of the pan.The spring came out and there was no plunger on the end of the spring(part#23 on the fiche)

http://www.suzukipartshouse.com/oemparts/a/suz/50d40ca5f8700230d8b50467/oil-pan

Would this plunger missing cause no oil flow up top?Somebody had there paws in this engine before I got it,can see rtv sealant oozing out of the joints.And as in my other post about this bike there was no oil seal behind the sprocket,leaked bad!!
There is a small amount of oil up top but I think its just what the cam chain is bringing up from down below.The oil light goes out after the engine starts and there is no crank or rod noise.Now I'm wondering what the hell else was left out when this thing was put back together

[shpielers]

Can't help answer your question, but I can sympathize. Best of luck!

[92xjunker]

That should be a check valve, preventing the cooler from draining back into the pan. I would check the oil pump/pressure while you're at it.

[4wred]

That should be a check valve, preventing the cooler from draining back into the pan. I would check the oil pump/pressure while you're at it.

I should have checked the pressure before I tore it all apart.I guess I'll order the part and put it back together so I can run it to check the pressure.
I think that plunger missing is the problem though,been searching the net all night and looking at the fsm oil flow chart and seems that it's somehow tied into that circuit.The fsm shows it as a pressure relief valve meaning to me without that plunger in there it's always relieving the pressure on the system.Not trying to be smart but it isn't a check valve according to the fsm.I tried to copy and paste the page out of the fsm but I couldn't paste it here,it's page #4-14.

Thanks

[92xjunker]

. I've heard that called a lot of names. Makes sence to me. It's an "oil pan pressure relief valve" and you are correct in your assessment, it will have an effect on oil pressure.

[4wred]

Checked a box I had of some (extra) parts yesterday that I got with the bike,found the oil pan relief plunger buried in the bottom.I should have checked it sooner,that's the good news.Now the bad,Installed it and have some oil flowing up top alot more than I was getting before.Still alot of valve noise up top on right side so I pulled the cover off again to check valve clearance and the cam lobes on #4 exhaust and intake still aren't getting oil they were pretty dry,actually intake had a thin film on it.Lobes on #3 had a better coating of oil on them.On the left side lobes on 1&2 looked good.So I put some short tubes on the 2 hoses to direct the oil into the head and ran the engine with the valve cover off.Right side #4 lobes were getting little to no oil especially #4 exh. #3 lobes had a little better flow but not as good as 1&2 where oil was flying all over.Oil was flowing good out of both the hoses that connect to the cover.Wondering if there is a clog somewhere in the passages that supply oil to #4 since that one is really bad?Looks like maybe a tear down to find the problem or any other suggestions you guy's might have.

[4wred]

Little more info I forgot to add.Pulled the bolt on the end of the head(rocker shaft) #3&4 exhaust and #1&2.Oil flowed out of 1&2 shaft 3&4 seemed very dry in there.Trying to figure out how the oil gets to the rocker shafts.Obviously there must be a clogged up passage on the way there? I haven't done a pressure test yet but I'm thinking that it probably isn't necessary since oil is flowing to the other side of the head good.

[4wred]

More info again,took the plug out of the main gallery right side and blew some compressed air into it.Oil and air came out the rocker shafts on cyls. 1&2 and pretty much none on 3&4.Looks obviously like a restriction on that side.Guess I'm gonna have to pull the head and cylinders to find?? Was hoping there was a easy way out, not looking good.Been in car engines already but never this far on a bike engine,time to go to school.

[shpielers]

Not sure if it would be ok for the clutch, but for cars there's anti sludge additives you can run through the engine. If they're fine for the clutch, might be worth a shot before tearin into the engine.


Seafoam - it's ok for clutches. And it helps clean things out. I've run some through for ~3 minutes before my last couple oil changes. No problems with it. Added before the oil change, idled the bike (engine warm prior to addin seafoam to the crankcase) for a few minutes and drained. Used ~1/4 can.

[4wred]

Not sure if it would be ok for the clutch, but for cars there's anti sludge additives you can run through the engine. If they're fine for the clutch, might be worth a shot before tearin into the engine.


Seafoam - it's ok for clutches. And it helps clean things out. I've run some through for ~3 minutes before my last couple oil changes. No problems with it. Added before the oil change, idled the bike (engine warm prior to addin seafoam to the crankcase) for a few minutes and drained. Used ~1/4 can.

Yea I thought about trying that then decided to pull the thing apart.I was concerned about running it anymore and that not working and trashing the cams even more.As expected when I pulled the cams out the journals were bone dry and not sure I'm gonna be able to salvage this head,the lobes on the cams don't look too sweet either.Still don't have the head all the way out yet,I could lift it up to the top of the studs but it hit the frame and couldn't totally pull it out.Guess I could tilt the engine forward and get the head out but i believe the blockage is down alot lower in the crankcase and I think I'm just gonna pull the engine out so I can get a good look at the cause of this.Only good thing about this is the knowledge I'll gain about bike engines!

Have one pic now I'll post some more when I get them.(intake lobes)[IMG][/IMG]

[4wred]

I've never seen so much rtv sealant in a engine before,looks like it was put on with a fire hose.Chunks all over the place in the head,cylinder passages.Cleaned it all out blew out all the passages with air. Putting the jugs back on and the head,gonna turn the engine over (still out of the bike)with the starter and see if I now have oil up at the rocker shafts on 3&4.Word to the wise,don't use rtv where it isn't absolutely necessary and if you do,very sparingly!!

[4wred]

Success

Cleaned out the passages and oil jets I could get to and put back together filled with oil and cranked the engine(still out of the bike)with the starter for about 15 seconds and had oil flowing in all the places I didn't before
Not 100% percent sure this will totally solve the problem because more chunks of rtv from down below may I think appear down the road.Gonna try to fire the engine out of the bike and run through a heat cycle and change the oil 1 more time.Just still leery about seafoaming the crankcase and having more chunks of rtv cause problems.Also I may cut open the filter after this short run to check for chunks of sealant,hopefully any new pieces will find their way to the filter first!

[shpielers]

Have you pulled the oil pan and cleaned the oil screen? Might be able to get a bit more out. Oil change sounds like a good idea

[4wred]

Have you pulled the oil pan and cleaned the oil screen? Might be able to get a bit more out. Oil change sounds like a good idea

Forgot to mention,yes I did have the pan off during this process.Found some chunks of rtv in the screen and laying in the pan.Hopefully the majority of them have been removed.There was also 1 little piece of aluminum down there,it was a very small chunk of the one cam journal that had the most damage.If I was going to use this engine alot in the future I would just replace the head or maybe have the cam journals reworked.I bought this bike mainly for parts,got it really cheap with 40k on the clock it has:new chain,all new exhaust 4to1,all plastics in great shape,decent tires,and other parts too numerous to mention.

[4wred]

No leaks

Stabbed the engine back in and fired it up ran for about 5 minutes let cool down ran again. Let sit overnight adjusted the valves re torqued the head.I didn't replace any gaskets only the six o rings on the jugs.I wanted to fire it up just to see what it would do.Old base gasket,head gasket.Thought for sure I would have leaks somewhere but the only leak I had was from the oil pan.I didn't think you could reuse old head gaskets??
Now I'm wondering should I just seal up the pan and call it a day or will I have problems down the road w/the head gasket?? Don't want to pull the engine back out if I don't have to! Engine sounds good,no more hammering up top due to oil starvation