Clutch Problem on 1100FM

[boardstiff]

I posted my original problem on 1/22/08 and wish I had lived with the light drag with the clutch disengaged. I now have no clutch at all since I tried the reverse bleeding.

To date I have tried: 1) Bleeding in reverse, 2) conventional bleeding, 3) taping the handle and cracking the bleeder over night then closing and bleeding conventionally. 4) Installed a Speed Bleeder on the slave cylinder, 5) Purchased and used a MightyVac to purge the system, 6) Reinstalled the original bleeder for quicker flow while using the Vac, 7) “Bled” the banjos conventionally after purging the system, 8) Verified the slave cylinder is operating and not leaking fluid or sucking air, 9) Disassembled and inspected master cylinder components (thought back bleeding might have pushed crud into it), 10) Verified the master cylinder holds full/constant pressure.

I have sucked approx 3 Qts of fluid through the system (yes, 3 Qts through the clutch!) with the MightyVac and I still can’t get the thing to disengage! I did initially encounter some problem with the Vac drawing air through the bleeder threads so I packed the base with wheel bearing grease and it stopped the air being drawn in by the Vac. I rigged a pint canning jar to collect the fluid from the vac so I can drain a full 12oz bottle of fluid without stopping. The system is tight and I am not losing any fluid. The clutch feels normal but still will not disengage the clutch.

All the bleeding methods I have used should have worked to remove any air. It is a simple hydraulic clutch for crying out loud! I have never had a problem bleeding anything before. What does it take to get air out of this thing?

[gaillarry]

I just changed out my clutch mc to a SV1000 mc and just finished bleeding the sys. Took me 3 attempts with a mity vac and it worked out great, I also switched to a speedbleeder for the clutch slave cylinder. These are my suggestions.

1) remove the hose bolt from the mc, put your finger over the mc hole, and pump the lever. You should feel lots of pressure as you pump the lever, replace the bolt. This will indicate if the mc is working properly.

2) bleed the system again. Once bled, crack the bolt at the mc and tighten again. Crack the bolt at the slave syl and tighten again. These two steps should release air from the sys.

3) Bleed again and check the sys. Remove the oil filler cap, with a light you can see the clutch plates, see if they move when applying the clutch.

4) if it doesn't work now, I would remove the slave cyl. As you pump the lever the piston in the slave cyl should move outwards. I use a plastic C clamp to hold the piston in and it applies some moderate pressure. Look for leaks around the piston seal. Watch for brake fluid or air leaks. The plastic c clamp works better than a metal clamp as it will move with the pressure from the piston.

5) Remove the clutch push rod, check to see if its bent or broken. Its a short rod, the other half is on the clutch plate side of the bike.

6) if there's lots of pressure at the slave cyl the system is working. Time to look at the clutch plates!!

I know its a pain in the a$$ bleeding brakes and clutches but most times its something simple that has gone wrong.

Keep us posted.

[Mojoe]

it sounds like your problem might be with the clutch itself, and not with the bleeding.

[gaillarry]

One way I used to check the plates on a KZ750 was to use a metal rod in place of the pushrod. Tap/smack the rod with a hammer and see if the clutch plates move.

[DClark]

Open the bleeder valve, then place a hose over it. Place the other end of the hose in a clear glass with a little bit of brake fluid.
Slowly squeeze the clutch lever while watching the hose end in the glass. If you don't see any bubbles, then your clutch line is properly bled, time to look at the clutch.
What I'd do if this were the case (warning- I am no master mechanic!)-
Remove the outer clutch case. There are about 6-8 bolts holding it on and just to mess with you, some have different lengths. Take a piece of cardboard, make a rough drawing of the case and as you remove each bolt, punch it into the cardboard.
Once removed, you'll see steel rod that goes from the clutch cylinder into the clutch.This thing should be clean and move easily.Take it out and clean. You might nead to use a green nylon scrub pad. Replace case, and use the cardboard to help you replace all the bolts in the right holes. All of this should take you about 30 minutes, 60 minutes if you go slow and need to take a dumo in the middle of things. If it works, send me a cyber beer!

[ITS_NOT_A_KNIFE]

check for broke or bent friction plates / steelies, in the basket, if the plates are jammed in the basket that would more than keep the clutch from disengaging...just something to check, also like said before, the push rod could be bent

[boardstiff]

Clutch Problem Resolved

I finally gave up on the hydraulics and opened the clutch. The bike is new to me so I was surprised to find everything new. The pressure disk itself looked like it just came out of the box, bright aluminum. Absolutely no wear on the hub sleeve or basket. The friction disks measured .101” - .102”, the driven plates were all .0765”. With the pressure disk removed the wheel was still locked when in gear. Once I got about half the disks out the wheel freed up. The metal on the friction disks were coated in what looked like dried varnish and it was loose in spots and detaching (looked like latex paint coming up with paint remover). What ever it was, it looked like it was part of the manufacturing process. I cleaned all the disks to bare metal (what a pain!) and once back together I started it in 1st with clutch disengaged and had to hold it back while starting. Once the oil was distributed on the disks it settled down. Don’t know if the crud coating the metal on the friction disks bound them or just surface tension from the oil. Has anyone else experienced anything like this? It appears to be an OEM clutch.

[gaillarry]

I've seen similar on an old Honda that had been sitting for years. The oil in the pan barely covers the clutch so the plates sit dry for years and seizes up.

Was the bike sitting for a long time before you got it?

Is it working ok now?+

[boardstiff]

I purchased the bike a few months ago and the seller had got it from a close friend that was a bike mechanic and had customized it. There is nothing about it that would indicate it sat for any real length of time (has 34K on it) and it has been well cared for. As I was looking at pictures I took of the clutch I realized that the steel and friction plates were installed with opposite orientation of each other (sharp edge vs. rounded edge). I cleaned the “stuff” off the friction plates and installed all the disks with the round edge towards the pressure disk to allow them to separate easier and everything now is fine.
Even though the hub and basket are not worn, I wonder if they could have bound against each other while I was pumping the system up while bleeding? If just one steel and one friction were bound that may be enough to cause the wheel lock with the clutch disengaged in gear.