Clutch Problem on 1100FM

[boardstiff]

I am new to this forum and to Katanas. I just recently purchased a very nice GSX 1100FM and was hoping someone could give me some help with this models clutch. It’s not completely disengaging. You can feel a slight surge forward when revving it at a stop in first gear.

I have bled the clutch line and there is no air or fluid leaks. I found that the clutch push pin was bent while changing the sprockets and chain and replaced it thinking that was the problem. It appeared that the stretched chain that was on it when I bought it had bunched up and hit the push pin. I changed the oil (Valvoline 10-40) at the same time I replaced the push pin and it appeared to have fixed the problem until I took it out for a ride. I was wondering if this is typical for this bike once the oil heats up and its viscosity increases possibly causing hydraulic drag between the clutch plates.

I purchased Castrol R4 for it but did not want to dump synthetic oil into it before I knew if I needed to work on the clutch. Now I’m glad I didn’t. I would appreciate it if anyone could give me some insight as to what could be causing this.

[DClark]

On every bike I have owned, the the bike would still move forward a bit witjh the clutch engaged, if the bike was cold. That oil, when thick, acts as a viscous coupling. When the bike is warmed up, you should have no problem. On my bike, I noticed that the idle will drop if I am at a stop with the clutch in, as opposed to neutral. It has been like this since i got the bike with 3100 miles. So, I wouldn't worry. You might want to flush out the old clutch fluid and put in some new stuff (it is just brake fluid).
Also, if it is cold where you are, you might want to ditch that fluid and put in some synthetic 5-30w. Mobil 1 5-30 works well in these motors and it could help minimize that clutch lurch.
I don't have 5-30 in now, but I have used it in the past as I like to ride when the streets are dry and temps are in the teens.

[gaillarry]

+1
Changing to 5-30W in cold climates makes a world of difference.

[NiteMare]

i'm not too sure if i have the picture of your problem correct or not, but here goes ...

if your gears disengage without problem when your engine is cold but not once it has warmed up, i'd say you have got a warped (overheated) steel plate in the clutch basket (that's how my clutch problem appears) or there is a possibility of a worn clutch basket and/or hub (notched)....

if your clutch slips as the engine heats up and worn plates has been disproved then there's most likely air still in the hydraulics, the air expands and releases the clutch (they can be a bugger to bleed properly)....

covered both these problems a few times on a couple of other forums i frequent, any plates that have to be replaced always use genuine suzuki ones for longevity, aftermarket ones apparently won't stand the same kind of abuse, all the straightliners/drag racers over here recommend genuine plates over any other make

[BIGKAT1100]

I think a good place to start is replacing the hyraulic fluid. Also, I have found that I have bled my system I had to check the way I proceeded. ex.:

Tried it with out removing the cap fron the res and that did not work out to good.

BTW, if that's the bike in your signature, that bike is sweeet and I would like to see more pic of it.

[DClark]

I want to add that if this bike is new to you, you might want to check the fork fluid. I changed the stock stuff when the bike was 7 years old with 4000 miles and it looked nasty.
Hell, replace all the fluids, fork, brake and clutch!

[BIGKAT1100]

I want to add that if this bike is new to you, you might want to check the fork fluid. I changed the stock stuff when the bike was 7 years old with 4000 miles and it looked nasty.
Hell, replace all the fluids, fork, brake and clutch!

+1000000 ..... oil and oil filter, plugs, ignition adv to 5*(if not done), check air filter. Everbody deserves a good rub down from time to time or when they change hands

[GytRDunKat]

Everbody deserves a good rub down from time to time or when they change hands

Wow, strangly quoted, very true!!

[Katana1100]

i'm not too sure if i have the picture of your problem correct or not, but here goes ...

if your gears disengage without problem when your engine is cold but not once it has warmed up, i'd say you have got a warped (overheated) steel plate in the clutch basket (that's how my clutch problem appears) or there is a possibility of a worn clutch basket and/or hub (notched)....

if your clutch slips as the engine heats up and worn plates has been disproved then there's most likely air still in the hydraulics, the air expands and releases the clutch (they can be a bugger to bleed properly)....

covered both these problems a few times on a couple of other forums i frequent, any plates that have to be replaced always use genuine suzuki ones for longevity, aftermarket ones apparently won't stand the same kind of abuse, all the straightliners/drag racers over here recommend genuine plates over any other make

Now, thats not what I was told,a guy at the track told me that the 1157cc will warp the clutch discs? plates? and he always runs a barnett kevlar clutch and it eliminates the clutch drag,I hope he's right, cause i bought one and soon as the weather breaks, its going in, so I'll let you know in March maybe. and I always run 0-50 synth-oil and it helped only a little bit.

[DClark]

I always run 0-50 synth-oil and it helped only a little bit.

Any oil with 50w at the high end is too thick- it will increase the lurching and cost you power/mpg. Try 10-40 or even better, 5-30, you'll see a big difference.

[Katana1100]

Any oil with 50w at the high end is too thick- it will increase the lurching and cost you power/mpg. Try 10-40 or even better, 5-30, you'll see a big difference.

I did try all those, and didnt see a difference with the clutch. I get the oil for free where i work, we used to use 5-40 synth and before that 5-30 synth, before that i used 10-30 castrol,10-40 castrol 5-30 pensoil. and it runs the coolest with the 0-50. and no change i can tell with the clutch. i guess the discs are warped enough to drag all the time, neutrals a biatch to get when stopped and the idle is dragged down as well.thats why she's gettin a new clutch as soon as the weather breaks a little.

[boardstiff]

Clutch Problem, Thanks for The Input

Yes, that is a picture of my bike. A previous owner really did a great job customizing it. I really wasn’t looking for another bike but was browsing on Craig’s list and couldn’t pass up a great deal. I will try to get more pictures to post.

Thanks for all the input on my clutch dragging while disengaged. I t doesn’t seem that the dragging should be normal even though it may be minimal. It is enough to prevent me from going into neutral at a light. The “crunch” going into 1st is enough to worry me and the dragging can only degrade the oil. Once moving it sifts smoothly.

While I don’t believe that the 10w-40 oil I put in is the problem (I live in SW Washington and the temps prior to this past week have been fairly moderate low 30˚s to mid 50˚s), the suggestion did encourage me to do some research on oils. I found the link below very interesting and helpful. I decided to take the Castrol R4 back and will try Rotella Synthetic 5W-40. I am going to try bleeding the clutch again to verify that is not the problem. If it’s not, I guess I will have to check the clutch assembly itself. Since it apparently is difficult to bleed this system properly, does anyone have any pointers to ensure all air is removed?

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

[NiteMare]

make sure the bike is stood up vertically first...

now with the aid of a large syringe draw some fluid out of the reservoir ....

then with the aid of some piping and syringe push fresh fluid back into the system via the bleed nipple (draw off excess as required) be a little wasteful as you are after ensuring all air is out of the clutch line (pipe)...

then once you've done that bleed a few pumps worth in the normal direction to ensure no air is still retained in the slave cylinder (use a pipe and jar with fluid in it to act as an air lock) when bubbles stop appearing in the jar you are clear

[DClark]

While I don’t believe that the 10w-40 oil I put in is the problem (I live in SW Washington and the temps prior to this past week have been fairly moderate low 30˚s to mid 50˚s), the suggestion did encourage me to do some research on oils. I found the link below very interesting and helpful. I decided to take the Castrol R4 back and will try Rotella Synthetic 5W-40. I am going to try bleeding the clutch again to verify that is not the problem. If it’s not, I guess I will have to check the clutch assembly itself. Since it apparently is difficult to bleed this system properly, does anyone have any pointers to ensure all air is removed?

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

A lower viscosity oil will give cooler running as higher viscosity leads to greater fluid friction. I see youa re looking at Rotella 5-40, which I have in my Jetta TDI. Rotella is a great diesel oil and I have some Mobil 5-40w SUV/Truck oil which is also the same as Delvac. Actually, I also have some redline 10-40 and some Penzoil 5-30w in their as well. I wasn't experimenting, but rather, had a bunch of gas in my oil (long story) and I grabbed what I had off the shelf of my garage to do a quick oil change. Anyhow, if your tranny grunches when you shift, no oil will will fix that, I'd focus on the clutch. If the clutch has new fluid and has been bled correctly, you should look into something else. Oh, try this- before shifting, pumping your clutch lever a few times then see if it still grunches. if it doesn't, you need to bleed. Open u the bleeder screw and duct tape the lever to the bar, let sit overnight. Next day, give a couple of bleeder pumps, close off the screw and hopefully all will be well.

[boardstiff]

Thanks NiteMare. Do I understand that I want to inject enough fluid through the bleeder to make it all the way back to the resevoir, flushing any air up and out?