New Guy With Some Questions

[g_man500a]

Hey everybody,

I've been posting a little bit in the introduction forum, but I figure it's time to come on out to the main room.

For anybody that has not read my introduction thread.. I do not have a motorcyle as of yet, but am trying to decide which bike to get, and am gearing up to take my MSF course and everything. I have kind of narrowed my decisions down to either an SV650 or a Katana. I have spent a good bit of time over on the svrider.com forum and know a good little bit about that bike, but I do not know much at all about Katanas.

I also don't have a whole lot of money available for a bike. I can probably swing the money to get the bike in the first place, but after that, I would need it to be pretty cheap to maintain, and last a good long time. I guess a few of my initial questions would be:

-What is the maintenance schedule like for these bikes, valve adjustments, etc?
-How long does a Katana last, milage wise?
-Please explain to me about oil cooling? I'm only familiar with water cooled engines.
-How manuverable are Katanas with their weight and all?

I am a big guy, so I would like something that is comfortable for somebody of my size. I don't plan on acting like a squid on whatever bike I get, but I like acceleration, and it would be nice for whatever bike I get to have enough power to give you a rush when you hit the throttle. I'd also like to try to do most mechanical work myself on whatever bike I get, so an engine that is easy to work on is a really good thing to me


Anyways, I'll end this here for now before it gets too long. I would appreciate any information, suggestions or comments anybody has to offer. Thanks!

P.S. SweetLou, if you read this....the weird guy with the helmet in your sig line freaks me out..really badly, lol.

[WildKat]

The SV650 and the Kat are both very good bikes and both would treat you well. You cant go wrong either one. If you're a bigger guy, as you mentioned, you may want to consider the Kat750 if u decide to go that route. The ergo's are not quite as aggressive as the 600, and its got alittle more snot for ya. But not too much that you cant handle it. You'd be fine on the 600 kat as well though, so its really your choice, but if you're confident enough, u might consider the 750. Think it thru carefully.

The SV650 is a sweet bike, and very capable of lasting you a long time just like the Kat.

The maint. schedules vary depending on whether its a new or used bike and how many miles are already on it.

There's some good threads about what to look for when buying a used bike, so dont jump at the first one you see if its a pre owned. Test ride it, check it over, ask the dealer about its history and maint records. If you like, take a friend with you so you have more eyes lookin at the bike so you dont miss anything.

[wantakat]

I am a new rider and purchased a used Katana a few weeks ago. I sat on the SV-650 or the V-strom or both in the dealership and found the Katana to be more comfortable. I also liked the looks of the bike better. The Kat is about as basic of an engine as you can get in an air/oil cooled engine...in-line four cylinder, 4 stroke. Just added oil volume and oil run through a coil similar to running water through a radiator. It is not fuel injected so it takes a minute or two to warm up and usually has to be choked when cold. Most will tell you it is a tough engine. As a new rider, I don't have anything else to compare it to, but I have not found its weight an issue. It is top heavy, but once you gain your balance and have get some practice, I don't think you will notice its weight. Everyone I talked to before I bought a bike said the Katana 600 was a good bike to start on. Some say 600cc's is too much for a beginner, but I think that's more a matter of how disciplined you are and not a factor of what the bike will do. I think you will find folks around here to be prejudiced in favor of the Katana. No matter what, I like the looks of the bike and am very happy with my purchase. Since the Kat has been around for a long time, you will find them at all prices and in all conditions. Someone once told me it is 'the most bang for the buck' and I think I agree.

[BeekMan]

There's very little negative stuff you're going to hear about the Katana here. It's a very personal decision and depends totally on what's important to you. The bang for the buck statement is common for the Katana on all accounts. Of course it won't do everything great but no bike does.
My impression is the first decision you need to make is do you want it for short jaunts and playing (SV) or do I want it more for touring and comfort (Kat). After that decision there are dozens of other factors that you have to consider to make the call. Both bikes will do everything but one will be a bit better than the other. Of course you won't really know exactly what you want until afterwards and that's why most people change bikes.

[woobie]

The maintenence on a Kat can be done by yourself if your reasonably mechically inclined, have a few basic tools and most importantly a service manual. And a garage or enclosed spot to work on the bike is a huge bonus also!!!

Valves are supposed to be done every 7500miles/12,000kms. It's $300-400 for the dealer to do them, or for the one time cost of a service manual, a torque wrench and some feeler gauges you can do them yourself in about an afternoon.

Masrapido had over 99,000kms / 61,000 miles on his Kat before an accident wrote it off. I think MoJoe is well over 200,000kms/125,000 miles on his 1100 Katana but that's from memory and I may be wrong.

If you ride alot I'd say your biggest expense will be tires (about $200US a set + mounting), that and Gas .

Don't forget when you budget the bike to incluse the cost of some decent gear. You don't need to spend a fortune but a decent helmet, gloves andf jacket are IMHO a must have. Proper pants and boots can be had for a resonable amount of money too.

[Teh_K]

Re: New Guy With Some Questions

P.S. SweetLou, if you read this....the weird guy with the helmet in your sig line freaks me out..really badly, lol.

Glad I'm not the only one

Anyway, the GF and I both got Kats as our first bikes and we're very pleased. We happened to get them just as they needed their 7,500 maintenance so there was a little hidden cost there, but that could happen to any bike.

[WildKat]

The kats are about as bullet proof a bike as you'll find. Just change the oil, keep up w/ regular maint. and they'll last you as long as you want them too.

[JesterGfx]

Re: New Guy With Some Questions

P.S. SweetLou, if you read this....the weird guy with the helmet in your sig line freaks me out..really badly, lol.

Glad I'm not the only one

That IS Lou!!! If you think that's freaky, you should see the pictures his signature came from!

[SweetLou]

OMG

Yes, the FACE is me, but the rest is not. I photochoped myself into some asian guy's helmut, then put a finger going into my mouth, all on the backdrop of my bike.

Glad to know that I can distrub people still

[The CyberPoet]

Re: New Guy With Some Questions

I also don't have a whole lot of money available for a bike. I can probably swing the money to get the bike in the first place, but after that, I would need it to be pretty cheap to maintain, and last a good long time.

The first bit of advice: always buy your first bike used unless you can afford to light your cigars with burning hundred dollar bills. Doesn't have to be more than a couple years old, but you'll miss that huge depreciation that always hits in year one & to a lesser degree in year two. Examples:
'05 Kat 600 SRP $6299
'03 Kat 600 low retail is $3335, average $4385.
If you search, you can find an 00 to 03 with low mileage and perfect condition for $3k or under.

-What is the maintenance schedule like for these bikes, valve adjustments, etc?

Both bikes (SV & Kat) need new brake fluid every other year, every year in high humidity locations. Both bikes need new brake lines every 4th year. Both bikes need fork oil changed every other year.
Kat will need oil changes every 3500 miles (4.5 liters), valve adjustments every 7500 miles (nut-adjuster). A 15k service for a Kat runs around $305-$310 at most dealerships around the country, including supplies (oil, filter), valve adjustment, etc. For that price, you can afford the tools & manuals to do it yourself the first time, and it's basically the cost of oil & filter from there on out. The Kat should go a bit longer between tires than the SV if you ride both bikes the same.

-How long does a Katana last, milage wise?

Highly dependent on how much riding you do (more is better) and giving it good oil. Like others have posted, 100k miles isn't unheard of, although most riders outgrow their Kat long before then.

-Please explain to me about oil cooling? I'm only familiar with water cooled engines.

Suzuki uses a dual-path oiling system, where approximately 5 liters of oil (total) is used to cool the engine & lube the tranny. One side of the oil pump moves high pressure/low volume over the heads to cool them. The other side of the oiling system moves low pressure/high volume through the oil filter, then the oil cooler (a radiator for oil), and finally sprays it up on the underside of the cylinders to shed heat from the cylinder walls and piston crowns. The advantage of this system is that the interior of the engine heats very evenly (which promotes long life), and that the system is very simple (less prone to breakdown than water cooled systems).
The down-sides to oil cooling are that the castings have to be a bit thicker (makes the engine heavier) and that oil doesn't draw off heat as well as water (meaning a water-cooled engine can generate more power from the same displacement, because heat is power); in this case, the SV650 has an 11.5:1 compression ratio compared the Kat 600's 11.3:1.

-How manuverable are Katanas with their weight and all?

The weight is a dual-edged sword. The Kat isn't as nimble as an SV by any means, but it also doesn't tend to get blown out of it's lane by semi's nearly as readily and will handle rough pavement without getting upset more readily (because of the higher sprung vs unsprung weight ratio).

Perhaps the real questions you should be asking yourself are:

"What kind of riding will I actually be doing?"
The SV is a better short-haul, around-town and one-to-two hour trip bike for most riders (because of the nimbleness), while the Katana is a better long-haul tourer and all-weather commuter because of the large fairings and simplistic engine design.

"What's the difference in insurance costs?"
As a starting rider, depending on your location and age, there may be a significant difference in premium pricing, although for most riders the difference would be minimal.

"Which one fits me more comfortably?"
"Which one do I like better"
The answers to these two questions are strictly based on your tastes and desires

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[zleviticus]

good post CP.. however i will disagree some with teh following

The first bit of advice: always buy your first bike used unless you can afford to light your cigars with burning hundred dollar bills. Doesn't have to be more than a couple years old, but you'll miss that huge depreciation that always hits in year one & to a lesser degree in year two. Examples:
'05 Kat 600 SRP $6299
'03 Kat 600 low retail is $3335, average $4385.
If you search, you can find an 00 to 03 with low mileage and perfect condition for $3k or under

I do not burn my cigars with hunred dollar bills and i bought new... for a coupe of reasons...
1. There was a certain color and style i wanted that i could not find used without a salvaged title.
2. I wanted to break in my cycle on my terms and be broken in at the same time. I think that not having access to all the power at once help me to learn the cycle more.
3. I did not want to be messign with the bike because someone else did not take care of it. General maintanence is fine but fixing someone else's neglect is not. Unless you have the time, finances and ability to do it.


Go which what you like.. I am a large man 6 foot 250+ and the 600 works for me fine.. i kind of wish i had a 750 but they donot make them in the fastest color... which of course is yellow and black.. ALSO it took me 6 months to find the right bike for me... i sat on every bike and asked ons of questions on them.

[The CyberPoet]

The first bit of advice: always buy your first bike used unless you can afford to light your cigars with burning hundred dollar bills. Doesn't have to be more than a couple years old, but you'll miss that huge depreciation that always hits in year one & to a lesser degree in year two. Examples:
'05 Kat 600 SRP $6299
'03 Kat 600 low retail is $3335, average $4385.
If you search, you can find an 00 to 03 with low mileage and perfect condition for $3k or under

good post CP.. however i will disagree some with teh following

I do not burn my cigars with hunred dollar bills and i bought new... for a coupe of reasons...
1. There was a certain color and style i wanted that i could not find used without a salvaged title.
2. I wanted to break in my cycle on my terms and be broken in at the same time. I think that not having access to all the power at once help me to learn the cycle more.
3. I did not want to be messign with the bike because someone else did not take care of it. General maintanence is fine but fixing someone else's neglect is not. Unless you have the time, finances and ability to do it.


Go which what you like.. I am a large man 6 foot 250+ and the 600 works for me fine.. i kind of wish i had a 750 but they donot make them in the fastest color... which of course is yellow and black.. ALSO it took me 6 months to find the right bike for me... i sat on every bike and asked ons of questions on them.

Z, your points are quite well made, and have a good basis to them... but I still believe a brand new rider shouldn't buy new in general.
You do know that for the $3k savings, you could have painted it in your choice of colors (custom paint job), had end-to-end work done or slapped in the ever desirable bigger engine, upgraded the suspension and still been ahead of the dollar-curve.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[tzortn]

I am a big guy and I have not had power issues on my 600 Kat and I frequently ride with a passenger. At the Gap I got to ride my friends SV 650. The amount of engine braking freaked me out. You have to be very smooth with the throttle. The Kat is a lot more forgiving.

[woobie]

Nick how did you find the riding position between the two bikes? Was the SV more agressive?

[tzortn]

Nick how did you find the riding position between the two bikes? Was the SV more agressive?

On a stock SV it would be, but Troy has handle bar risers on his. They are pretty slick and not too expensive. They really help the seating postion a lot. There is a big difference in teh seat. The SV seat is a lot harder, but I do not know how it would be for a long ride. I would have liked to ride it more, but it was starting to rain and I did not want to dealwith figuring out a new bike on 28.