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  • The Best Writing I Have Seen On Noobs and Sportbikes

    ...not that many of them will listen, regardless of HOW well writen or thought out the article is. I found it as an ebay guide:
    http://reviews.ebay.com/ebaymotors/F...00000000978680

    but it is originally supposed to be from sportsbike.net (but that site seems to be nothing more than page after page of ads.)

    Introduction

    Well, another riding season is upon us and as it always happens, we get lots of inquiries from potential new riders on how to get into the sport, what's a good first ride, where to take safety classes and so on. One particular type of inquiry that pops up with almost clockwork frequency is from a small number of new riders who wish to buy 600cc and up sportbikes as their first ride.

    For the past year and a half, I, along with lots of other BB forum members, have entertained this question of 600cc sportbikes for a first ride with patience and lots and lots of repetition. It seems this small group of newbies keep coming back with the same arguments and questions over and over again. As a result, I am going to take the time in this column to try and put into words, answers that get repeated over and over on the BB forums.

    Allow me to state first and foremost that I am a sport rider. My first bike was a Ninja 250R and I put nearly 7000 miles on it in two seasons before selling it. I am presently shopping for my next ride and it will almost certainly be a sportbike or sport tourer in the 600-1000cc range. I am also building a track bike in my garage which I hope to complete this season (a Yamaha FZR600). Although I am not an expert rider by any stretch, I have tinkered enough and done enough research along with talking with other riders to be able to speak with some degree of knowledge on the subject.

    This column is split into two parts. First, I would like to address the common arguments we see here as to why a 600cc sportbike simply must be a first ride along with rebuttals. Second, I want to cover the rationale behind why the BB community-at-large steers new riders away from these machines.

    False Logic

    On about a three month interval, a whole slew of questions pop up on the BB forum from potential riders trying to convince the community that a 600cc sportbike is a suitable first ride and then proceed to explain to us why they are the exception. I can almost set my clock to this pattern of behavior since it is almost swarm-like. I guess the newbies figure by swamping the forum with the same questions in lots of places we might trip up and endorse such a machine. Hasn't happened yet but they keep on trying.

    For those of you that come to Beginner Bikes trying to convince us to endorse a 600cc sportbike, I offer you the following responses to your arguments.
    I can only afford to get one bike so it might as be the one that I want.

    I don't want to go through the hassle of buying and selling a used bike to learn on.

    These two lines of reasoning pop up as one of the more common arguments. I am going to offer first a piece of wisdom which is stated with great regularity on the forums:

    This is your first bike, not your last.

    Motorcycle riders are reputed to change bikes, on average, once every two to three years. If this is the case (and it appears to be based on my observations), the bike you learn to ride on will not be in your garage in a few years time anyway whether you buy it new or used. You're going to sell it regardless to get something different, newer, more powerful, more comfortable, etc.

    Yes, buying a bike involves effort and a financial outlay. Most of us simply cannot afford to drop thousands of dollars on a whim every time we want to try something new. Getting into riding is a serious commitment in time and money and we want the best value out it as much as possible.

    However, if you can afford to buy outright or finance a 600cc or up sportbike that costs $7000 on average, you can probably afford to spend $2000 or so on a used bike to learn on. Most of the beginner sportbikes we recommend here (Ninja 250/500, Buell Blast, GS500) can all be found used for between $1500-$3000.

    Done properly, buying and selling that first bike is a fairly painless process. Buying a used bike is no harder than buying new. I would argue it is a bit easier. No different than buying a used car from a private seller. If you've done that at least once, you'll know what to do in buying a used bike.

    Selling a beginner bike is even easier. You want to know why? Because beginner bikes are constantly in demand (especially Ninja 250s). These bikes spend their lives migrating from one new rider to the next to act as a teaching vehicle. It is not uncommon for a beginner bike to see four or five different owners before it is wrecked or junked. There are a lot of people out there looking for inexpensive, reliable bikes and all of our beginner recommendations fit into that category.

    If you buy a used Ninja 250R for $1500, ride it for a season or two, you can be almost guaranteed that you will be able to resell that bike for $1300 or so when you are done with it provided you take care of it. And on a bike like the Ninja 250R, the average turnaround on such a sale is two to three days. No joke. I had five offers on my Ninja 250R within FOUR HOURS of my ad going up on Cycle Trader. I put the bike on hold the same day and sold it four days later to a fellow who drove 500 miles to pick it up. My bike never made it into the print edition. Believe me, the demand is there.

    And look at it this way: For those one or two seasons of riding using the above example, excluding maintenance costs which you have no matter what, you will have paid a net cost of $200 to ride that Ninja. That is extremely cheap for what is basically a bike rental for a year or two. Considering it can cost $300 or more just to rent a 600cc sportbike for a weekend (not including the $1500-$2000 security deposit), that is economic value that you simply cannot argue with.

    Vanity Arguments

    The beginner bikes you recommend are dated and ugly looking.

    I want something that's modern and stylish.

    I want a bike that looks good and that I look good on.

    I call these the vanity arguments. These are probably the worst reasons you can have for wanting a particular bike.

    I will not disagree that aesthetics plays a huge part in the bikes that appeal to us. Motorcycles are the ultimate expression in personal taste in vehicles. Far more than cars. Bikes are more personal and the connection between rider and machine is far more intimate on a bike than a car. On a bike, you are part of the machine, not just a passive passenger.

    However, as entry into world of riding and with the temporarily status that most beginner bikes have in our garages, looks should be the least of your concerns. As long as the bike is in good repair and mechanically sound, that is usually enough for most new riders to be happy. Most riders are happy to ride and they will ride anything given the choice between riding or not riding.

    If you are looking at bike mainly because of how it looks and/or how you will look it and how others will perceive you on it, take a good, long, honest look as to why you want to ride. There are lots of people out there who buy things strictly because of how it makes them appear in the eyes of others. It's shallow and vain but it is a fact of life. It shouldn't be a factor in choosing that first ride but it is. I won't deny that.

    The difference is: a BMW or Mercedes generally won't leaving you hanging on for dear life if you stomp on the accelerator or throw you into the road if you slam on the brakes a little hard. Virtually ever sportbike made in the past 10-15 years will do both of those things given a chance to do so (for reasons that will be explained later in this column).

    The population at large may think you're cool and look great on that brand new sportbike and ohh-and-ahh at you. The ohhs can quickly turn to screams of horror should, in your efforts to impress the masses, you wind up dumping your bike and surfing the asphalt. Will you still look cool with thousands of dollars in damage to that once-beautiful sportbike and with the signatures and well-wishes of your friends on the various casts you'll be wearing months afterwards?

    You Be The Judge


    I'm a big rider so I need a bigger bike to get me around.

    I'm a tall rider and all of those beginner bikes just don't fit me the way the sportbike does.

    I'll look huge and foolish riding on such a small bike.

    My friends will laugh at me for riding something so small.

    These arguments are almost as bad as the vanity arguments. The difference being is they simply show a lack of motorcycle knowledge for the most part.

    Unless you are over 6'3" tall or are extremely overweight (meaning well over 300lbs), even the smallest 250cc motorcycle will be able to accommodate you without difficultly. To provide an example, the Ninja 250R has a load limit of 348 pounds. That is more than sufficient to accommodate a heavier rider in full gear and still leave plenty of space for cargo in tank, tail and saddle bags. Or enough to allow two-up riding between two average weight individuals.

    The idea that bigger riders need bigger bikes is almost laughable. It's like saying small drivers need Honda Civics but bigger drivers only 100 pounds heavier need to drive Hummers to get around. Or Corvettes with plenty of power to pull their ample frames, as the analogy goes. It is only because of the small physical size of bikes compared to their users that this train of thought even exists. It simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny. A look at any motorcycle owner's manual will confirm that for you.

    Tall riders suffer more from fit issues than weight issues. On this, they do have a point. I'm a taller rider (6'1"). I do fold up quite comfortably on the Ninja 250 which is considered a small bike. I found it perfect for my frame. Others haven't. Then again, my knees hit the bars on bikes like the Rebel 250 and Buell Blast. Just different ergonomics that didn't fit me.

    For taller riders, a much better beginner fit is a dual-sport machine rather than a sport machine. They offer the high seat heights that make them comfortable rides and their power is well within acceptable limits. We have a small but vocal dual-sport community here and they will tell you, quite rightly, that a dual-sport is just as capable on twisty roads as a sportbike. The same properties that give sportbikes their cornering ability is also possessed by dual sports (high center of gravity).

    As to peer pressure, I admit to taking more than my fair share of ribbing from my 600cc riding friends. Some of it good natured, some of it not. In the end, this argument falls into the vanity arena. Which is more important: Your safety and comfort on a bike or what your friends think?

    The ways to deal with friends giving you a hard time about a smaller ride is very simple. Tell them to ride their rides and you'll ride yours. It's your ride, after all. Most true riders will accept other riders, no matter what they are on. Only posers and losers care that your ride doesn't measure up to their "standards". And if so, do you really want to be riding with them anyway? It's more fun to stand out than to be a member of a flock anyway. And if they don't buy that line of reasoning, try this one: "Well if you don't like my ride, why don't you go buy me something that you will like?". THAT will shut them up REALLY fast. It works too. Unless their name is on the payment book or the title, it shouldn't be their concern.

    If your friends can't deal with your decisions, you're probably better off looking for new friends. And if you can't deal with the peer pressure, then you are putting your own safety at risk solely because of what others think. Revisit the vanity arguments above and think about why you want to ride.

    Decision Justification Arguments


    I'll take it easy and grow into the bike.

    I'm a careful driver so I'll be a careful rider and not get into trouble.

    I drive a fast car so I'll be able to handle a fast bike.

    Other people have started on a 600cc sportbike and didn't get hurt. So why can't I?

    These arguments are the most common ones put forth and the ones that are hardest to deal with. These are the arguments that start flame wars. Because it is on these arguments that you have to convince someone the idea of what a beginner bike is over their preconceived notions.

    The arguments also often surface in what I call the "decision justification arguments". Many new riders have their heart set on a specific bike and often come to BB to ask about it not to get real advice but to get confirmation that their decision is right. In cruisers, standards, scooters and dual-sports, more often than not these "pre-decisions" are generally good ones. In sportbikes, more than 3/4 of the posters are trying to get the community to approve their choice of a 600cc machine as a first ride. Their shock is quite real when they are barraged with answers that don't meet their expectations and that is when a flurry of oft-repeated discussion ensues.

    Let's take each argument in turn since these are the ones that turn up with regularity.

    I'll take it easy and grow into the bike.

    The purpose of a first bike is to allow you to master basic riding skills, build confidence and develop street survival strategies. You don't grow into a bike. You develop your skills on it. As your skills develop, so does your confidence and with it, your willingness to explore what the bike is capable of.

    But you are also entering in a contract with the bike. It is two-way. You are going to expect the bike to act on your inputs and the bike in turn is going to respond. The problem is, your skills are still developing but the bike doesn't know that. It does what it is told. You want a partner in a contract to treat you fairly. On a bike, you don't want it fighting you every step of the way. And like most contracts, the problems don't start until there is a breakdown in communication or a misunderstanding.

    In sportbikes, the disparity between a new rider's fledgling skills and the responsiveness of the machine are very far apart. That is a wide gulf to bridge when you are still trying to figure out what the best inputs and actions on the bike should be. Ideally, you want your bike to do what you tell it and do it nicely. You never want the bike to argue with you. Modern sportbikes, despite their exquisite handling will often argue violently right at the moment a new rider doesn't need them to.

    Remember, riding is a LEARNED skill. It does not come naturally to the majority of us (save those like the Hayden brothers who were raised on dirt bikes from the moment they could walk). It must be practiced and refined. Riding is counter-intuitive to most new riders. It doesn't happen the way you expect. For example, at speeds over 25mph, to get a bike to go right, you actually turn the bars to the left. It's called counter-steering and it eventually comes naturally as breathing once you've been in the saddle for a while. But for new riders, this kind of thing is utterly baffling.

    You want your skills to grow in a measurable and predictable fashion. You have enough to be fearful of riding in traffic. The last thing you need is to be fearful of what your bike might do when you aren't ready for it. It's never a good situation.

    It is interesting to point out that only one manufacturer, Suzuki, explicitly states in their promotional material that their GSX-R family of sportbikes are intended for experienced riders. This also applies to several of their larger, more powerful machines (such as a GSX-1300R Hayabusa). If Suzuki issues such a warning for its top-flight sport machines, it is reasonable to say that the same warning would apply equally to similar machines from other manufacturers.
    "Stevie B" Boudreaux

    I ride: '01 Triumph Sprint ST

    Projects: Honda CB650 Bobber projects I, II and III

    Take care of: 81 Honda CM400,72 Suzuki GT550

    Watch over/advise on: 84 Honda Nighthawk 700S (now my son's bike)

    For sale, or soon to be: 89 Katana 1100, 84 Honda V45 Magna, 95 Yamaha SECA II, 99 GSXR600, 95 ZX-6, 84 Kaw. KZ700, 01 Bandit 1200, 74 CB360.

  • #2
    Very true! That was a good read thanks.

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    • #3
      Sticky?
      THE DOC
      RIP MARC......Ride on in Heaven Brother!
      Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a
      mistake when you make it again.
      sigpic

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      • #4
        That was a great article, the guy obviously put a lot of time and effort into sorting through what he saw as the problem and identifying the reasons behind it. Something like this should be required reading for anyone looking to buy a first bike.
        "Screaming Eagle" = Harley dealer code for "Easily parts with money, and equates noise with performance."
        -----------------------------------------
        2004 Suzuki GSXF 600
        1982 Yamaha Maxim 750
        1977 Suzuki GS 400

        Comment


        • #5
          Very Nice!

          CP should add that to the newbie post (link to it, rather)

          New to Katriders? Click Here!

          Comment


          • #6
            I know it to be true, even though it scares me sometimes. My friend Walter was convinced for quite some time that he needed a 'Busa to move him around....
            One day over the summer after he had completed his MSF I let him take a quick run on the Bandit while I was trying to figure out something on the Kat... and he was like "I realize now what you meant....I don't need something that big."

            He figured out that even the B6 can be scary fast.
            -Steve


            sigpic
            Welcome to KatRiders.com! Click here to register
            Don't forget to check the Wiki! http://katriders.com/wiki

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            • #7
              Outside of the MSF, my first ride was on a 600 Kat. It's what convinced me to get one. I started there. I won't say it was a good beginner bike because it wasn't, IMO. I do fine on it now, but it still surprises me (I don't get to ride as often as I'd like right now). Even as a noob myself (< 3 years riding experience), I'd try to convince people to go smaller. Not working on my sister (who is 5 foot nothing so couldn't ride a SS or Kat anyway), but I keep trying.

              Good post, Stevie.
              Pain is just weakness leaving the body.
              -Unknown Author

              The quarrels of lovers are the renewal of love.
              -Terence

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm surprised he didn't add the "I'm an experienced rider, I've ridden dirt bikes for years." argument. That one gets A LOT of play on sportbikes.net.
                -2005 Katana GSX750F ***SOLD***
                -2006 Kawasaki ZX-6R

                RideGear.com (I keep shooting, but they won't DIE!)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Oh, wow, my first sticky! I am honored.
                  "Stevie B" Boudreaux

                  I ride: '01 Triumph Sprint ST

                  Projects: Honda CB650 Bobber projects I, II and III

                  Take care of: 81 Honda CM400,72 Suzuki GT550

                  Watch over/advise on: 84 Honda Nighthawk 700S (now my son's bike)

                  For sale, or soon to be: 89 Katana 1100, 84 Honda V45 Magna, 95 Yamaha SECA II, 99 GSXR600, 95 ZX-6, 84 Kaw. KZ700, 01 Bandit 1200, 74 CB360.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Great article says its all....
                    “What you own is your own kingdom
                    What you do is your own glory
                    What you love is your own power
                    What you live is your own story” -Niel Peart

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Very succinctly written. Kudo's!!
                      2006 Katana 750 - Daily therapy
                      2005 ZZR1200 - Weekend therapy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rushfan View Post
                        Great article says its all....
                        sigpic




                        Faster, Faster, Faster... Until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." Hunter S. Thompson

                        " Rather ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow "

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                        • #13
                          As much as I do agree with the article and the points it make, I must say from personal experience there are exceptions to some of the rules. My first bike was a kat 600. Both my parents used to ride and my dad is certified on police motorcycles, so they gave me some great advice. I also completed the MSP in PA. Overall, I consider myself very responcible. I've never gotten a speeding ticket or been in a car accident and I've never been convicted of a crime of any kind. Keeping this all in mind, I've been riding my Kat for 2 years and have never had any problems of any kind. Just recently, my friend purchases a CBR 600 as his first bike. He is a very sensible person and has ridden dirt bikes for years and he has yet to have a problem with his bike. And by problems I mean never being out of control, doing anything stupid, wrecking, or just being an idiot on a bike. Overall, I agree with the article completely in that stereotypically newbies shouldn't start off with a a sport bike. However under some circumstances, I think it is a choice that an individual needs to make based on his or her own experience, comfort, and responcibility.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There are exceptions to almost everything, tallguy63. Stasticially, MOST results fall within 2 standard deviations from the mean (google that stuff for a full explination), which forms the standard bell curve. You do sound like an exception, but (also statisically) exceptions do not dis-prove the rule- the points made are still valid.
                            "Stevie B" Boudreaux

                            I ride: '01 Triumph Sprint ST

                            Projects: Honda CB650 Bobber projects I, II and III

                            Take care of: 81 Honda CM400,72 Suzuki GT550

                            Watch over/advise on: 84 Honda Nighthawk 700S (now my son's bike)

                            For sale, or soon to be: 89 Katana 1100, 84 Honda V45 Magna, 95 Yamaha SECA II, 99 GSXR600, 95 ZX-6, 84 Kaw. KZ700, 01 Bandit 1200, 74 CB360.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Steve,

                              I meant no offense what so ever to your posting. As I had stated in my reply, I do agree with what you said. However, I do not think it would be fair to someone to read your article and completely accept it as truth. You are simply giving advice, advice that I agree with, but advice is not fact. That is all that I am saying.

                              I would like to mention that your defense with the use of the normal curve and standard deviation statistically does not apply here. Your evidence and claims are not based on any empirical evidence. You have no data to standardize and divide into standard deviations. Therefore, claiming that 95.449% of the results fall within two standard deviations of the mean has no bearing because there is no data.

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