New Coils, ignition problems. Another one? Really?

[Airborne]

Hello Guys,

This forum has always been helpful to me, so I'm hoping it won't fail me this time either as I'm frustrated beyond belief...

My old coils weren't doing very well in rain, so I've eventually gotten around to replacing them, especially since starting the bike after rainy night was barely possible if I didn't have the cover on. They never failed once in dry weather but ran intermittently when wet.

I've ordered a brand new set of coils, covered every connection with dialectic grease and plugged it back. The bike would fire up and run for a second, barely, before it would die. Throttling would make it die even faster, so I've eliminated this to be the fuel problem. After long and extensive troubleshooting, I've concluded this to be the new coils problem, as they were not producing a strong enough spark in comparison to the original ones. Hard to believe, but new coils were faulty.

I went to another manufacturer and ordered a new set. Connected everything in the same way. I'm not even getting a spark now, the bike doesn't fire up at all. It is hard for me to believe the new set of coils to be bad (although who knows, maybe they all come from the same manufacturer anyway, they are not the OEM Denso ones). It may have something to do with something else and maybe the first coils were not bad in a first place? Would it be another problem?

Spark plugs, ignition and CDI all worked just fine with the old set of coils, so I doubt it's got anything to do with any of these. I have verified the wiring sequence and I'd present a picture of how my coils are wired, however I have no clue how to upload pics to this forum!

The coils are wired as follows:
Left coil:
top lead to the 1st cylinder, bottom to the 4th cylinder.
O/W wire to the top connection (1st cylinder plug)
W wire to the bottom connection (4th cylinder plug)
Right coil:
top lead to the 3rd cylinder, bottom to the 2nd cylinder.
O/W wire to the bottom connection (2nd cylinder)
B/Y wire to the top connection (3rd cylinder).

What am I missing?

Thank you and I look forward to hearing back from you!
Airborne

[RobertTravis]

Seen it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRQ45lT2d3c

and here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaSKU2m3qbI

I am sure there are others and/or better examples out there as well.

[ZookRick]

Have you tested the coils to make sure they are right for the bike, they should have 3 ohm primary.

[shpielers]

Can't offer any help, but do have a question for you. How do you know it was the coils going bad as opposed to the spark plug wires? I've heard about the wiring cracking and everything arching/grounding, but haven't heard of wet weather causing coil specific issues

[92xjunker]

Agree, unless the coils were cracked.

[skjeflo]

Beyond that, the coils are so nicely tucked away under the tank that I question how rain overnight could cause them act any different at the morning start up. Possibly after running down the road in a deluge, but even that seems a bit of a stretch just because of their location.

[shpielers]

They aren't really any more protected than plug wires - trust me water finds a way. My 600 is hard to start when it's raining, and almost crapped out on the highway in a deluge recently. If the one can get wet, so will the others. I just haven't heard of coils crapping out like that before

[Airborne]

Hello Guys,

Thank you for your prompt responses and instructions on how to test the new coils.

The reason I'm thinking rain causes my original coils to fail is just like one of you said, water will find its way eventually. On a highway it takes a while for it to die, especially if I'm at speed. But if I get stuck in a rain in a jam, where water can easily drip over the gas tank, it starts running rough and not on all cylinders, before it dies.

I have actually tested it carefully by taking plastics off and spraying water on different parts of the engine. I sprayed water on leads and spark plugs and nothing happened. The moment I sprayed a mist on top of both coils, it died instantly. I tested it a few more times after drying it thoroughly and the same response, each time a mist got on coils, the bike would die.

There might be a possibility though that it wasn't the coils as such but the connection from the coils to the leads? Is there a way to test it? Have you ever came across a problem like that?

Thank you and I look forward to hearing back from you!

Airborne

[RobertTravis]

You want to do a real good inspection on those coils with a magnifying glass etc to make sure that there aren't any micro cracks on it. Any little crack will allow it to short out, as that high voltage will always seek the path of least resistance.

The wires should be checked for resistance, but I don't know off the top of my head how to test for that without lancing the wire through the insulation on the coil side with a pin and the plug connector. Then test for resistance with meter.

It's just a band aid but many have painted their coils to seal them. You can also use WD40 or CRC5-56 to displace moisture, but this is temporary.

On automotive coil pack for example, they often get hot & the epoxy potting cracks allowing moisture in. The plastic housing can also crack & despite best efforts, even new ones can be crap. If you can run it with the lights off, spritz some water on them with the squirt bottle while running, you may be able to see where the spark is leaking from.

[Airborne]

Hey,

Yes I could inspect those original coils thoroughly, but like you said, any fix would be temporary, hence I did what I thought was the right thing, and replaced them with brand new coils. After all, this is almost a 20 year old bike, so coils could have gone bad. The main problem is, why aren't the new coils working? Especially, since this is already a second brand new set!

What am I missing?

[RobertTravis]

Just because something is new doesn't mean it is good. I would pull and thoroughly inspect each for cracks under magnification. Sucks I know...but if you are committed to a solution, leave no stone unturned.

My background is in manufacturing automation. I've replaced new components in a number of situations 3 or 4 times on robots before it was determined that all but the last replacement was garbage. It happens, unfortunately.

[92xjunker]

Also, if your alternator is over charging it will damage components.

[Airborne]

You were right Gentlemen, it was a problem with the coils. I checked the resistance on the primary and it barely exceeded 0.5 ohms, while my original ones hover around 2.85! I can't believe this is the third set of coils sent as a direct replacement of OEM coils, I have no clue what these sellers are doing!

The problem however now is that by extensive testing with voltmeter and running the starter many times looking for sparks, I fear I may have fried the CDI, as now even my original coils do not produce a spark on one side... Have you got any ideas where would be a good source of new, not used, good quality coils and CDI that would actually be guaranteed to work?

Thank you and I look forward to hearing back from you!

Airborne

[92xjunker]

Those are very expensive, if they aren't obsolete. Try http://www.Bikebandit.com. I would be look for a reason why they keep burning out, like the charging system.

[Airborne]

They are not burning out... They used to work absolutely fine in dry weather, it's water that would shut them down, but as soon as they would dry out, they would work just fine, hence I decided to look for replacement, which appears to be harder than I thought!

Extensive testing may have lead me to have fried the CDI, as I went through 3 sets of coils which were clearly wrong for my bike and now even the old ones don't work. That is why I think I'll be needing a new set of coils and a new CDI, which happens to be a problem to find.

Please help!

Thank you and I look forward to hearing back from you!

Airborne