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Front/Rear Wheel - Missing Parts?

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  • Front/Rear Wheel - Missing Parts?

    Hey folks,

    So, thanks to the great people of this forum my bike ('93 600) is getting close to being back together. However, putting the rear and front wheels back on today, I have noticed some potentially missing parts.


    I don't have a pinch bolt for the front axle. This seems important?

    No. 13 and 14, Bolt and Nut (Pinch Bolt) for Front Forks

    http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/...7847#sch282231


    Also, after putting the rear wheel back on it seems kinda not-free-spinning if the axle is tight, and the left (gear shift) side seems like the swingarm is reeeally close to hitting the sprocket bolts. After looking on BikeBandit, wondering if I am missing the spacer below?

    No. 10, Rear Wheel, Spacer:
    http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/...7847#sch282727


    Here is a picture of the left side swingarm; seems too close. You can sse the sprocket bolt maybe a millimeter from hitting the swingarm (click for big):



    As such, here are the questions I have:
    1. Can I use any old Bolt and Nut as a Pinch Bolt?
    2. Does it seem like I am indeed missing a rear spacer?
    3. If so, can I use a stack of washers in place of this spacer? (guess I wouldn't know the thickness needed)


    Thanks very much!
    Last edited by Heeltoeclutch; 09-17-2017, 01:56 AM.

  • #2
    That does seem too close

    Pinch bolt: pretty much as long as it's snuggly torqued you should be ok.

    As far as the sprocket, look at a parts fiche and verify you aren't missing anything. You should have a couple mm space in there.
    1998 Katana 750
    1992 Katana 1100
    2006 Ninja 250

    2006 Katana 600 RIP - 130k miles

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by shpielers View Post
      That does seem too close

      Pinch bolt: pretty much as long as it's snuggly torqued you should be ok.

      As far as the sprocket, look at a parts fiche and verify you aren't missing anything. You should have a couple mm space in there.
      Thanks shpielers I will pick up a nut/bolt that fits.

      Regarding the spacer, I found this thread which discusses it quite a bit. Sounds like I need to pull the wheel off and check my bearings, and remove the "carrier"...?

      Also seems like a potential solution is washers from Lowes. The interesting thing is my castle nut engages fine right now, and assuming I don't have the spacer... that's weird.

      Comment


      • #4
        Sprocket carrier. It's not bolted in, it's just plopped on. When you pull the rear wheel, the sprocket and it's carrier pop (or fall) out of the rest of the wheel easily.
        1998 Katana 750
        1992 Katana 1100
        2006 Ninja 250

        2006 Katana 600 RIP - 130k miles

        Comment


        • #5
          One of the issues with the katana swing arm is, it does collapse a little when torque is applied. This causes it to be cupped. When I swapped over to bandit adjusters, I had to reopen the swing arm to fit the adjuster inside, which negated the extra shim spacer that was installed.

          Another issue is bearing width, OEM vs aftermarket ( usually Chinese) aren't exactly the same width. They are off by a hair, multiply that by 3 and you're off by quite a bit. Use a quality bearing to reduce this, I buy mine by the piece at a bearing shop.
          "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset you when I called you stupid. I thought you already knew..."
          spammer police
          USAF veteran
          If your a veteran, join the KR veterans group

          Comment


          • #6
            Don't assume, take it off and check. The left spacer on the pre typically sits the carrier that close to the swingarm. If you want to change that, acquire a post Kat left spacer... it's 5mm wider, and will move the carrier away from the arm a tad.

            The Pre spacer is so close to the edge, a lot of times it sticks in the carrier and gets over looked.

            Krey
            93 750 Kat



            Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

            "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 92xjunker View Post
              One of the issues with the katana swing arm is, it does collapse a little when torque is applied. This causes it to be cupped. When I swapped over to bandit adjusters, I had to reopen the swing arm to fit the adjuster inside, which negated the extra shim spacer that was installed.

              Another issue is bearing width, OEM vs aftermarket ( usually Chinese) aren't exactly the same width. They are off by a hair, multiply that by 3 and you're off by quite a bit. Use a quality bearing to reduce this, I buy mine by the piece at a bearing shop.
              Originally posted by shpielers View Post
              Sprocket carrier. It's not bolted in, it's just plopped on. When you pull the rear wheel, the sprocket and it's carrier pop (or fall) out of the rest of the wheel easily.
              Originally posted by Kreylyn View Post
              Don't assume, take it off and check. The left spacer on the pre typically sits the carrier that close to the swingarm. If you want to change that, acquire a post Kat left spacer... it's 5mm wider, and will move the carrier away from the arm a tad.

              The Pre spacer is so close to the edge, a lot of times it sticks in the carrier and gets over looked.

              Krey
              Thanks a lot guys,

              I presume my bearings are original, as the bike only has 15k miles. Tonight I will pull the wheel off, inspect things and post some pictures.

              The sprocket carrier - is this the DRUM, REAR SPROCKET as denoted by BikeBandit, part no. 6?
              http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/...47847sch282727

              If so, mine did not fall off easily - wondering if I should give it a tug to look more thoroughly at things.

              Additionally, I went to Home Depot and bought some washers in almost the exact size Krey mentioned the original spacer is (35mm OD, 17.2mm ID) and was planning to try these in case I am indeed missing the spacer. Seems like it should work fine, but then the castle nut engagement issue comes up. Hm.
              Last edited by Heeltoeclutch; 09-18-2017, 03:16 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Heeltoeclutch View Post
                Thanks a lot guys,

                I presume my bearings are original, as the bike only has 15k miles. Tonight I will pull the wheel off, inspect things and post some pictures.

                The sprocket carrier - is this the DRUM, REAR SPROCKET as denoted by BikeBandit, part no. 6?
                http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/...47847sch282727

                If so, mine did not fall off easily - wondering if I should give it a tug to look more thoroughly at things.

                Additionally, I went to Home Depot and bought some washers in almost the exact size Krey mentioned the original spacer is (35mm OD, 17.2mm ID) and was planning to try these in case I am indeed missing the spacer. Seems like it should work fine, but then the castle nut engagement issue comes up. Hm.
                You should have a spacer on the outside of the carrier(sprocket hub) against the swingarm, another spacer between the carrier and the wheel, and another on the brake side of the wheel. Commonly people don't realize the spacer between the carrier and the wheel has fallen out. This loads all the pieces together when you tighten the nut and prevents it turning freely. Double check all your spacers, safety relies on it.
                .
                .
                .
                .
                .
                "There's a green blur and a Gray blur. I try to stay on the gray one" Joey Dunlop RIP

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kreylyn View Post
                  Don't assume, take it off and check. The left spacer on the pre typically sits the carrier that close to the swingarm. If you want to change that, acquire a post Kat left spacer... it's 5mm wider, and will move the carrier away from the arm a tad.

                  The Pre spacer is so close to the edge, a lot of times it sticks in the carrier and gets over looked.

                  Krey
                  Originally posted by SilverKat1000 View Post
                  You should have a spacer on the outside of the carrier(sprocket hub) against the swingarm, another spacer between the carrier and the wheel, and another on the brake side of the wheel. Double check all your spacers, safety relies on it.
                  Thanks for the responses guys,

                  Okay, I took the rear wheel off and did some investigating. Here is what I found:
                  1. I believe I have the left spacer, and it was just stuck to the sprocket carrier. Pic below. Also had the longer spacer inside the sprocket carrier. That should be all of them.
                  2. Pretty sure I have the original stock bearings, they say "JAPAN" on them.




                  So, in theory I could just put the bike together and call it a day. However, it makes me nervous that tightening the axle nut when all is together properly results in slightly more resistance turning the rear wheel. As such, I tried one of the washers I bought to "boost" the left spacer. Before this, I cleaned and examined the left side of the swingarm to see if my sprocket bolts had been digging in. I don't think so, but there is some slight indentation near where the spacer sits:






                  The washer is approximately 2.3 mm thick. When I put it on, it didn't seem to throw off the chain alignment... but then I wasn't using no fancy Motion Pro tool to check:

                  Not sure why but these images will not rotate:




                  However, putting the washer on the left side creates an issue trying the get the rear caliper mount in. It seems I need to widen the swingarm by maybe a millimeter to get it in:



                  Trying to slide in the caliper mount on the right... doesnt clear. Trying to muscle it in/pull the swingarm apart didnt help:



                  Based on all of the above, here are my questions:
                  1. Should I just put it back together, stock configuration, live with the disturbing wheel-rotation-resistance, and call it a day?
                  2. Or, should I somehow widen my swingarm, use my 2.3mm washer as "extra" spacer, and hope my castle nut engages and my chain stays aligned?


                  I'd like to be lazy and go with #1 - but the resistance makes me concerned. How can this be how they designed it? Strange.
                  Last edited by Heeltoeclutch; 09-19-2017, 12:23 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You can fit that in easily, you can widen the swing arm by hand to fit that in. That said, if you can torque the wheel down and nothing rubs you are good. Some drag while turning the wheel is normal due to lateral tension on the bearings. It should loosen up once the bearings seat under torque and rotation. The spacers and bearings create a sub axle. FYI there are 4 spacers (left at the carrier, in the carrier, in the wheel and right at the wheel and caliper bracket)
                    "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset you when I called you stupid. I thought you already knew..."
                    spammer police
                    USAF veteran
                    If your a veteran, join the KR veterans group

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 92xjunker View Post
                      You can fit that in easily, you can widen the swing arm by hand to fit that in. That said, if you can torque the wheel down and nothing rubs you are good. Some drag while turning the wheel is normal due to lateral tension on the bearings. It should loosen up once the bearings seat under torque and rotation. The spacers and bearings create a sub axle. FYI there are 4 spacers (left at the carrier, in the carrier, in the wheel and right at the wheel and caliper bracket)
                      Thanks junker - if that is the case I may just stick with the stock spacer for the time being. If I were to widen it, I would want to "plastically deform" it so that it's not a bear to put together each time. And I forgot to mention, I do have the right-hand side spacer, and I presume the one inside the wheel bearings. Hopefully I can see this one and I'll check tomorrow.

                      I think I will try torquing the wheel down with the stock spacer, and if nothing rubs I will run it like this for the time being.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Don't worry about the "alignment" with the single spacer. Heck, the 5mm wider post spacer wouldn't cause a problem. Your probably wondering why... so... the simple answer is...

                        The swingarm is a fork... anything you put between those forks will equally spread both sides... so adding that spacer pushes both sides out a tad, leaving the wheel in the center.

                        I'm not opposed to spreading the swingarm wider. Simple to do. bottle jack and a few mins... I've done several for the bandit 4.5" rim swaps on a Pre kat.

                        Krey
                        93 750 Kat



                        Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

                        "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

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