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  • Carbs Leaking... Advice Appreciated.

    Good day Katrider friends,

    My bike is a '93 Katana 600. This bike I bought as a project, barely running. Rusty tank, carbs all a mess, PO running it without the airbox for a short time. Clean title though. Woo. This is my first project of this mechanical magnitude, and I am slowly wading through it, forcing myself to learn.

    I pulled the carbs apart, bought a kit of O-rings from arsenic, new pilot plugs thingies from bikebandit, new pilot jets (as the old ones were MISMATCHING ), cleaned everything per Carbs101 (except removing the choke slide all the way as that was functioning fine), set my float heights, and put it all back together. I did not buy new bowl gaskets as the original ones looked to be in nice shape, still pliable and rubbery.

    Tonight I wanted to test if my floats/needles were functioning correctly by feeding the carbs some gas on the bench and seeing if the carbs overflowed.

    Well, not sure if they are overflowing or not, but they are leaking like a mother. I'm not sure in how many places. When supplying gas to the carbs on the bench, here's what I can see:


    - Leaks looking to be coming from the Tee-fittings where the fuel lines hook up, at the junctures of where the Tees connect to the carbs. Here's a picture with the offending areas circled in red.
    https://i.imgbox.com/fFzRAuJs.jpg

    - Seemingly large amounts of total fuel dripping off carbs 1 and 2. Cannot tell if its just the fuel running out of the Tee leak, or elsewhere.


    Here are the things I need to do, and my questions, I think:

    1. Replace O-rings of the Fuel Tees. I think these are them? (4) Rubber fuel "Tee" seal: Part #13673-44B00.

    2. How do I do the above? This is not covered in Carbs101. I am honestly a bit nervous pulling the carbs from the rack. Maybe that's silly. I have not found too much by searching.

    3. While the carbs are apart from the rack - what else should I do, clean, or replace?

    4. Should I buy new bowl gaskets? Is it crazy that I tried to re-use them?

    5. Are my carbs a total loss? Should I just spend a gazillion dollars and buy some refurbished ones from an unknown source?


    Full-disclosure: these carbs are kind of a mess. There are mismatching screwheads (like the originals got lost), half of the bowl drain screws are not matching, there are some small cracked off bits of aluminum in places that should not matter, etc. The internals look to be in fine working shape, and everything fit and seemed to function fine when I had them apart. The exteriors are a bit rough. However this makes me think they should work, they will just look ugly, which is fine by me.



    Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Starting to get discouraged - this bike has now not run in 2 years. I would like to get it going.

    Thank you very much.
    Last edited by Heeltoeclutch; 08-09-2017, 01:58 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Heeltoeclutch View Post
    Good day Katrider friends,

    My bike is a '93 Katana 600. This bike I bought as a project, barely running. Rusty tank, carbs all a mess, PO running it without the airbox for a short time. Clean title though. Woo. This is my first project of this mechanical magnitude, and I am slowly wading through it, forcing myself to learn.

    I pulled the carbs apart, bought a kit of O-rings from arsenic, new pilot plugs thingies from bikebandit, new pilot jets (as the old ones were MISMATCHING ), cleaned everything per Carbs101 (except removing the choke slide all the way as that was functioning fine), set my float heights, and put it all back together. I did not buy new bowl gaskets as the original ones looked to be in nice shape, still pliable and rubbery.

    Tonight I wanted to test if my floats/needles were functioning correctly by feeding the carbs some gas on the bench and seeing if the carbs overflowed.

    Well, not sure if they are overflowing or not, but they are leaking like a mother. I'm not sure in how many places. When supplying gas to the carbs on the bench, here's what I can see:


    - Leaks looking to be coming from the Tee-fittings where the fuel lines hook up, at the junctures of where the Tees connect to the carbs. Here's a picture with the offending areas circled in red.
    https://i.imgbox.com/fFzRAuJs.jpg

    - Seemingly large amounts of total fuel dripping off carbs 1 and 2. Cannot tell if its just the fuel running out of the Tee leak, or elsewhere.


    Here are the things I need to do, and my questions, I think:

    1. Replace O-rings of the Fuel Tees. I think these are them? (4) Rubber fuel "Tee" seal: Part #13673-44B00.

    2. How do I do the above? This is not covered in Carbs101. I am honestly a bit nervous pulling the carbs from the rack. Maybe that's silly. I have not found too much by searching.

    3. While the carbs are apart from the rack - what else should I do, clean, or replace?

    4. Should I buy new bowl gaskets? Is it crazy that I tried to re-use them?

    5. Are my carbs a total loss? Should I just spend a gazillion dollars and buy some refurbished ones from an unknown source?


    Full-disclosure: these carbs are kind of a mess. There are mismatching screwheads (like the originals got lost), half of the bowl drain screws are not matching, there are some small cracked off bits of aluminum in places that should not matter, etc. The internals look to be in fine working shape, and everything fit and seemed to function fine when I had them apart. The exteriors are a bit rough. However this makes me think they should work, they will just look ugly, which is fine by me.



    Any help or advice would be much appreciated. Starting to get discouraged - this bike has now not run in 2 years. I would like to get it going.

    Thank you very much.
    You need to do do a full tear down of the carbs... separating them from the rack. It sounds to me like the process you used to clean them was just spray cleaner? Yeah, that's not gonna get them clean. Additionally you need to remove the choke plungers to get the choke system fully cleaned. Did you remove the air / fuel screws as part of the cleaning and put in new o rings there?

    What I would recommend is you break down the rack so the carbs are fully separate. Remove everything except the butterflies/linkage. Soak each carb body in berryman's chem dip (or use an ultrasonic cleaner). I ussually soak them for 24 hours. I only use aerosol cleaner as a rinse for the dip to be honest.

    Set the air / Fuel screw to 2.5 turns.

    Tip for the fuel Ts... put the rubber on the plastic T both sides, then insert it into the carbs that way. A touch of vaseline or machine oil can make it so they don't "stick" on the insertion. Just make sure the holes they are going into are clean and do not have any deposits in them.

    Hardware I almost always replace. I ditch the JIS screws for sure, and normally replace with stainless hex cap 5mm x 12 screws.

    As for the broken parts... I'd suggest you get good pics, and post them. Just to make sure.

    Krey
    93 750 Kat



    Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

    "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Kreylyn View Post
      You need to do do a full tear down of the carbs... separating them from the rack. It sounds to me like the process you used to clean them was just spray cleaner? Yeah, that's not gonna get them clean. Additionally you need to remove the choke plungers to get the choke system fully cleaned. Did you remove the air / fuel screws as part of the cleaning and put in new o rings there?

      What I would recommend is you break down the rack so the carbs are fully separate. Remove everything except the butterflies/linkage. Soak each carb body in berryman's chem dip (or use an ultrasonic cleaner). I ussually soak them for 24 hours. I only use aerosol cleaner as a rinse for the dip to be honest.

      Set the air / Fuel screw to 2.5 turns.

      Tip for the fuel Ts... put the rubber on the plastic T both sides, then insert it into the carbs that way. A touch of vaseline or machine oil can make it so they don't "stick" on the insertion. Just make sure the holes they are going into are clean and do not have any deposits in them.

      Hardware I almost always replace. I ditch the JIS screws for sure, and normally replace with stainless hex cap 5mm x 12 screws.

      As for the broken parts... I'd suggest you get good pics, and post them. Just to make sure.

      Krey
      (Apologies in advance for any ignorance)

      Thanks for the response Krey. Part of the reason I did not go full-dipping was that the critical parts did not seem too dirty/clogged; the pilot jets, emulsion tube holes, etc. all were not bad and I was able to clear everything by soaking and cleaning the small pieces themselves. I did pull the A/F screws and replace the O-Rings. Do you think dipping is truly necessary if the bike was running, and (I think) the key areas/holes are now clear and okay? Perhaps this is hugely ignorant - I did not think the choke assembly had to come out if the choke was functioning fine.

      Regarding the hardware - I'd love to replace the:
      - Bowl-securing (two silver) screws
      - Cap-securing (black) screws
      - Float Drain screws

      I looked on BikeBandit and the Drain screws are $13 apiece! I believe they have some special thing on the end? Or, could all of these truly be replaced by Home Depot 5mmx12 screws?


      Thanks for the tip on the Tees. It sounds like I just need to start removing screws until the carbs separate - although not having an understanding of the procedure ahead of time always makes me a little nervous. While they are apart, are there any other O-rings, seals, etc. I should order and replace?

      I will post some more pictures of all-over the carbs tonight. I appreciate the help.
      Last edited by Heeltoeclutch; 08-09-2017, 10:52 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Heeltoeclutch View Post
        (Apologies in advance for any ignorance)

        Thanks for the response Krey. Part of the reason I did not go full-dipping was that the critical parts did not seem too dirty/clogged; the pilot jets, emulsion tube holes, etc. all were not bad and I was able to clear everything by soaking and cleaning the small pieces themselves. I did pull the A/F screws and replace the O-Rings. Do you think dipping is truly necessary if the bike was running, and (I think) the key areas/holes are now clear and okay? Perhaps this is hugely ignorant - I did not think the choke assembly had to come out if the choke was functioning fine.

        Regarding the hardware - I'd love to replace the:
        - Bowl-securing (two silver) screws
        - Cap-securing (black) screws
        - Float Drain screws

        I looked on BikeBandit and the Drain screws are $13 apiece! I believe they have some special thing on the end? Or, could all of these truly be replaced by Home Depot 5mmx12 screws?


        Thanks for the tip on the Tees. It sounds like I just need to start removing screws until the carbs separate - although not having an understanding of the procedure ahead of time always makes me a little nervous. While they are apart, are there any other O-rings, seals, etc. I should order and replace?

        I will post some more pictures of all-over the carbs tonight. I appreciate the help.
        The float bowl uses 2 diff screws... 2 long, 2 short. That is OEM. Unfortunately, the tip is special on them and you would need to replace if you did... with OEM.

        The air flow or fuel flow on the pilot system is not working, and most likely due to a blocked passage. That would be the need for the dip. To dip, you need to remove anything rubber - thus... full tear down. If it's rubber and it goes in that dip, it will dissolve. The plastic isn't an issue... but rubber goes fast.

        You can use the 5mm screws I mentioned on both caps and bowls just fine. The rail screws might be 5mm too (if I recall correctly, but check that.. )

        If you have already replaced all orings and pilot jet plugs, only the Fuel or Air vent Ts come to mind, and they all use the same gasket so that would be 8 total if you want to replace them all.

        Just pay close attention (take pics) of the springs for the sync screws, and pull them out carefully so as not to loose them. Use a towel or cover the whole assembly so they can't go flying across the room if they did "spring" out. Buying replacements on those sucks $ wise... jus sayn.

        Unless broken, I've never seen a need to replace the bowl gaskets on a pre.

        Have you replaced the float needles? Have you checked the tips on them? I tend to use a q tip after the soak to hard wipe the inside of the float needle seat to make sure it's as clean as possible to prevent leaks from happening.

        As for the question if I think a dip is necessary on a running bike after it's been sitting for as long as yours have... YES. Many times I have seen the same steps taken... sat for a long time, spray and pray was used to clean them, put on the bike... bike runs, sorta... but has some issues at various rpms or wants to hang idle when warmed up, or hard to start when it gets colder... so on.... bike runs, but not well. And the answer has almost always come back to pulling the carbs back apart, and doing a full dip to clean them right. Do it now, while your going to be in there. At the worst case, it's a $20 investment (for the dip if you don't have some already) that will store for future use on any carb for any other project in the future. It's not a bad "tool" to have around.

        Krey
        93 750 Kat



        Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

        "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

        Comment


        • #5
          Didn't read all the thread but I did see you mention that you didn't see something in carbs 101 , here's the link http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=131010 to 102 that is an awesome reference

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Kreylyn View Post
            The float bowl uses 2 diff screws... 2 long, 2 short. That is OEM. Unfortunately, the tip is special on them and you would need to replace if you did... with OEM.

            The air flow or fuel flow on the pilot system is not working, and most likely due to a blocked passage. That would be the need for the dip. To dip, you need to remove anything rubber - thus... full tear down. If it's rubber and it goes in that dip, it will dissolve. The plastic isn't an issue... but rubber goes fast.

            You can use the 5mm screws I mentioned on both caps and bowls just fine. The rail screws might be 5mm too (if I recall correctly, but check that.. )

            If you have already replaced all orings and pilot jet plugs, only the Fuel or Air vent Ts come to mind, and they all use the same gasket so that would be 8 total if you want to replace them all.

            Just pay close attention (take pics) of the springs for the sync screws, and pull them out carefully so as not to loose them. Use a towel or cover the whole assembly so they can't go flying across the room if they did "spring" out. Buying replacements on those sucks $ wise... jus sayn.

            Unless broken, I've never seen a need to replace the bowl gaskets on a pre.

            Have you replaced the float needles? Have you checked the tips on them? I tend to use a q tip after the soak to hard wipe the inside of the float needle seat to make sure it's as clean as possible to prevent leaks from happening.

            Thank you for the wisdom Krey. I have downloaded the Pre service manual and am going through it trying to understand things as well as possible - here are some answers, and additional questions, to your questions:




            If you have already replaced all orings and pilot jet plugs, only the Fuel or Air vent Ts come to mind, and they all use the same gasket so that would be 8 total if you want to replace them all.
            Fuel tees I understand, I saw fuel leaking from there. I was unaware that there are Air vent tees; I have not seen these mentioned in any threads or Carbs101. On a '93 where would these be?




            Have you replaced the float needles? Have you checked the tips on them? I tend to use a q tip after the soak to hard wipe the inside of the float needle seat to make sure it's as clean as possible to prevent leaks from happening.
            I did not replace the float needles or its seat; I did check their operation and they were not sticking and looked to be in good order. The Q-Tip is a good idea, I can do that. I'm rather nervous about replacing these as A. I don't see a clear way to do it without potentially breaking the plastic apart, and B. I don't want to mess up the floats because they're $80. When the bike was running it did not flood the airbox or cylinders to the best of my knowledge, so I have not been too worried about the needle valves. When I feed the carbs fuel, the leaking is instantaneous - immediately there is gas dripping off. If it were due to leaky needles, I would think the gas would have to climb upwards and leak out of a higher place (emulsion tube?) in the carbs. I don't see any fuel coming out of the main venturi area.


            Related float question: With the new dual float O-rings from arsenic, the floats were mighhhhty snug in there. They are secure and I believe sealed, but a little lopsided, and I cannot get the larger o-ring to sit level. If I push hard to seat it in, I push all the way possible but it lopsides itself a little. Is this common? I am using synthetic grease to lubricate these O-rings.


            The air flow or fuel flow on the pilot system is not working, and most likely due to a blocked passage.
            May I ask what leads you to this conclusion? If the pilot jet(s) were blocked it would run shittily (which it did); however the pilot jets are now brand new, changing from oversized mismatching rust-covered ones - this would lead me to believe I have solved that problem with the new jets...?


            Thank you Krey!
            Last edited by Heeltoeclutch; 08-09-2017, 06:22 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Heeltoeclutch View Post
              Fuel tees I understand, I saw fuel leaking from there. I was unaware that there are Air vent tees; I have not seen these mentioned in any threads or Carbs101. On a '93 where would these be?
              Directly above the Fuel Ts are 2 more Ts. Those are air vent or tip drain Ts. Should have lines on them that open to the bottom of the bike, draping over the airbox. Not capped.

              Originally posted by Heeltoeclutch View Post
              I did not replace the float needles or its seat; I did check their operation and they were not sticking and looked to be in good order. The Q-Tip is a good idea, I can do that. I'm rather nervous about replacing these as A. I don't see a clear way to do it without potentially breaking the plastic apart, and B. I don't want to mess up the floats because they're $80. When the bike was running it did not flood the airbox or cylinders to the best of my knowledge, so I have not been too worried about the needle valves. When I feed the carbs fuel, the leaking is instantaneous - immediately there is gas dripping off. If it were due to leaky needles, I would think the gas would have to climb upwards and leak out of a higher place (emulsion tube?) in the carbs. I don't see any fuel coming out of the main venturi area.


              Related float question: With the new dual float O-rings from arsenic, the floats were mighhhhty snug in there. They are secure and I believe sealed, but a little lopsided, and I cannot get the larger o-ring to sit level. If I push hard to seat it in, I push all the way possible but it lopsides itself a little. Is this common? I am using synthetic grease to lubricate these O-rings.
              If you feel the needles are in good shape, then no worries. The float rails btw don't really get brittle. They are very tough, and you can easily separate the 2 components and put them back. I've never had those break ever in the umpteen dozens of kat carbs I've worked on.

              Not normal to sit lopsided. Was it doing this before the grease, was the grease used before attempting to put it in? Sometimes grease or other chems can cause a slight swelling, so... I don't know if it was slightly too large to start, the hole is slightly small due to deposit/ residue, or if the rubber has expanded slightly.


              Originally posted by Heeltoeclutch View Post
              May I ask what leads you to this conclusion? If the pilot jet(s) were blocked it would run shittily (which it did); however the pilot jets are now brand new, changing from oversized mismatching rust-covered ones - this would lead me to believe I have solved that problem with the new jets...?
              *reads back through the thread* Well honestly this carb issue kinda ran into the 14 other discussions I've having atm about carb issues, and I thought you were still having idle issues. After refreshing myself from the start, I see that you haven't run the bike yet after the pilot jet swap? So... the answer is I don't know actually. BUT... if you have any idle issues.... that's probably gonna be my go to response of why. Jus sayn.

              Krey
              93 750 Kat



              Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

              "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Kreylyn View Post
                Directly above the Fuel Ts are 2 more Ts. Those are air vent or tip drain Ts. Should have lines on them that open to the bottom of the bike, draping over the airbox. Not capped.

                If you feel the needles are in good shape, then no worries. The float rails btw don't really get brittle. They are very tough, and you can easily separate the 2 components and put them back. I've never had those break ever in the umpteen dozens of kat carbs I've worked on.

                Not normal to sit lopsided. Was it doing this before the grease, was the grease used before attempting to put it in? Sometimes grease or other chems can cause a slight swelling, so... I don't know if it was slightly too large to start, the hole is slightly small due to deposit/ residue, or if the rubber has expanded slightly.
                Krey
                Thanks Krey. I'm getting better at this - the carbs are back apart to Carbs101 state after about 10 minutes this time, minus the A/F screws as I need to buy a teflon pick or something. Dont want to kill the new O-rings.

                Here are some more pics of the carbs - forgive the links, thanks photobucket. My choke slide is rather buggered up, but it was working fine:

                http://imgbox.com/0qQp0l0P
                http://imgbox.com/BrV5PQlw
                http://imgbox.com/PtZLb8Vp

                I confirmed earlier the drain screws are not leaking, which is nice. Don't think the bowl gaskets are either.

                I forgot to mention the bike came with a jet kit; as such I don't think I see any Air tees, which I think makes sense?

                Regarding the float O-rings, I could not get the bare things in there at first. Before the grease I would put them in and they would just pop back out. I will take a photo of the holes. If they are indeed slightly small im sure the dip would help.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Heeltoeclutch View Post
                  I forgot to mention the bike came with a jet kit; as such I don't think I see any Air tees, which I think makes sense?
                  Jet Kit installed (btw, how many slots on the needles?) would not have anything to do with the vent Ts. It did just occur to me though those do not use the same gasket as the fuel T. The vent Ts are rubber, not plastic, so they are their own gasket bascially. So only 4 gaskets need for the fuel inlets.

                  Let me post a pic...

                  Black Ts between carbs 1-2 and 3-4... above the fuel inlets.



                  I'll add a link to them from bikebandit.com in a sec.

                  Part #7. Don't be confused by the name, it's not just a hose... http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/...7847#sch258198



                  Krey
                  Last edited by Kreylyn; 08-09-2017, 09:22 PM.
                  93 750 Kat



                  Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

                  "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kreylyn View Post
                    Jet Kit installed (btw, how many slots on the needles?) would not have anything to do with the vent Ts. It did just occur to me though those do not use the same gasket as the fuel T. The vent Ts are rubber, not plastic, so they are their own gasket bascially. So only 4 gaskets need for the fuel inlets.

                    Let me post a pic...

                    Black Ts between carbs 1-2 and 3-4... above the fuel inlets.



                    I'll add a link to them from bikebandit.com in a sec.

                    Part #7. Don't be confused by the name, it's not just a hose... http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/...7847#sch258198

                    Krey
                    Thank you! So if I'm looking at my carbs right, I am entirely missing these?
                    http://imgbox.com/W9eEpqv1

                    I remember reading that the top air lines are unneeded if you have a jet kit - that is not referring to these tees though?

                    Clips are on the 3rd from top of needles, 6 slots total:
                    http://imgbox.com/S7E43st1

                    Two other questions:

                    - Where is the Pilot Air jet? Is this one of the two holes at the airbox-side, mouth of the carbs?

                    - Is Berrymans the dip I should buy? Some reviews seem to say it is weak; I worry about what we can get here in CA. If it works for our carbs, then coolio. I'd prefer something that's easy to find over MEK or other unobtaniums.

                    Again - thank you very much for the help.
                    Last edited by Heeltoeclutch; 08-10-2017, 02:25 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Heeltoeclutch View Post
                      Thank you! So if I'm looking at my carbs right, I am entirely missing these?
                      http://imgbox.com/W9eEpqv1

                      I remember reading that the top air lines are unneeded if you have a jet kit - that is not referring to these tees though?
                      I have no idea why that would be even remotely relevant to a jet kit. A jet kit is primarily the main needle which is used to regulate the fuel mix at 3-8k rpms. Some kits like the one you have also include their own main jets to match the needle shape.

                      The vents and hose are not going to be associated to that aspect of the carbs. I guess the best way to describe that would be another analogy... What your stating is like saying... "You don't need windows in your house if you have a Couch." I mean, it's just not relevant or related to each other.

                      That said, I would definitely put the Ts on, and I would suggest you run the vent lines to prevent fuel from pouring out onto a hot engine in case of tip over.

                      Originally posted by Heeltoeclutch View Post
                      Clips are on the 3rd from top of needles, 6 slots total:
                      http://imgbox.com/S7E43st1
                      So for future tune discusion be aware you have a Dynojet (or similiar knock off) jet kit. That means the jets will probably be different (should be) than OEM as well, and tuning will be slightly different.

                      So that brings up the question of what kind of air filter is in the bike?

                      Originally posted by Heeltoeclutch View Post
                      Two other questions:

                      - Where is the Pilot Air jet? Is this one of the two holes at the airbox-side, mouth of the carbs?
                      Yes, as looking at that side at the 2 holes... right side is the pilot air jet, left side is the main air jet.

                      Originally posted by Heeltoeclutch View Post
                      - Is Berrymans the dip I should buy? Some reviews seem to say it is weak; I worry about what we can get here in CA. If it works for our carbs, then coolio. I'd prefer something that's easy to find over MEK or other unobtaniums.

                      Again - thank you very much for the help.
                      I use berryman's and never had an issue, though I do dip for 24 hours instead of the directions 2 hours.

                      Krey
                      93 750 Kat



                      Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

                      "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kreylyn View Post
                        I have no idea why that would be even remotely relevant to a jet kit. A jet kit is primarily the main needle which is used to regulate the fuel mix at 3-8k rpms. Some kits like the one you have also include their own main jets to match the needle shape.

                        The vents and hose are not going to be associated to that aspect of the carbs. I guess the best way to describe that would be another analogy... What your stating is like saying... "You don't need windows in your house if you have a Couch." I mean, it's just not relevant or related to each other.

                        That said, I would definitely put the Ts on, and I would suggest you run the vent lines to prevent fuel from pouring out onto a hot engine in case of tip over.


                        So for future tune discusion be aware you have a Dynojet (or similiar knock off) jet kit. That means the jets will probably be different (should be) than OEM as well, and tuning will be slightly different.

                        So that brings up the question of what kind of air filter is in the bike?

                        Yes, as looking at that side at the 2 holes... right side is the pilot air jet, left side is the main air jet.

                        I use berryman's and never had an issue, though I do dip for 24 hours instead of the directions 2 hours.

                        Krey

                        Thank you thank you for all of this knowledge. I found where I read it - in Carbs 101, it says:


                        * Remove the air lines up top and their T's and their rubber boots.
                        (These are for make up air not needed with a jet kit!)


                        I assumed these were the same things you were speaking of? And I wonder if the PO read this too and so pulled the tees off? Your reasoning makes sense to me...


                        Air filter, I believe, is stock. I have not confirmed this. Heard of issues running the K&N. If stock works fine that's what I'll run, I can buy a new filter to be certain. When I bought the bike the PO had removed the stock airbox, because ya know.... it looks cool that way... or something.
                        As far as jets and tuning - arsenic and 92xjunker advised me previously to buy the stock 32.5 pilot jets. So those are standard, and I believe my main jets are 110.

                        Great, I'll buy Berryman's. No problem dipping for a long time.


                        The service manual states that to separate the carbs, an impact driver is needed due to threadlocker, and that the screws will be damaged and need replacing. Have you found either of these to be the case? If so I'll pick up a driver tonight on the way home from work if I can find one cheap enough.
                        Last edited by Heeltoeclutch; 08-10-2017, 02:27 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Heeltoeclutch View Post
                          The service manual states that to separate the carbs, an impact driver is needed due to threadlocker, and that the screws will be damaged and need replacing. Have you found either of these to be the case? If so I'll pick up a driver tonight on the way home from work if I can find one cheap enough.
                          Never had an issue with the rail screws coming out. They are large enough that the heads don't normally strip too easily. The largest reason they would need replaced is using a philips head driver on the JIS screws they are.... that tends to deform them. Most times when I run into an issue, it's a bowl screw.

                          I always replace them all with stainless hex cap screws anyways, so it's not a big issue long as you get them out.

                          So I've never noticed that in carbs 101, but that's a serious case of misunderstanding what those Ts are for. Lol. Honestly Carbs 101 is a tad out of date at this point. Another bit of info I know it mentions that isn't right is the a/f settings. Make sure you start those at 2.5 turns, but... with your dynojunk jet kit you may need to go out further to 3 or 3.25 turns for the idle to be right and not hang. This is because of the DJ jet being shaped differently than the mikuni jets, so it flows differently.

                          You can pretty quickly tell if it's OEM type air filter. 4 small screws and it comes right off. Or look inside the hole for the intake, and see if you can see the element. White paper type is OEM, red is generally a K&N, black is normally a foam filter.

                          Krey
                          93 750 Kat



                          Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

                          "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kreylyn View Post
                            Never had an issue with the rail screws coming out. They are large enough that the heads don't normally strip too easily. The largest reason they would need replaced is using a philips head driver on the JIS screws they are.... that tends to deform them. Most times when I run into an issue, it's a bowl screw.

                            I always replace them all with stainless hex cap screws anyways, so it's not a big issue long as you get them out.

                            So I've never noticed that in carbs 101, but that's a serious case of misunderstanding what those Ts are for. Lol. Honestly Carbs 101 is a tad out of date at this point. Another bit of info I know it mentions that isn't right is the a/f settings. Make sure you start those at 2.5 turns, but... with your dynojunk jet kit you may need to go out further to 3 or 3.25 turns for the idle to be right and not hang. This is because of the DJ jet being shaped differently than the mikuni jets, so it flows differently.
                            This thread is becoming a veritable gold mine of knowledge. Thanks! I think it would be great for this to be captured in Carbs101.

                            Had a small amount of time to work on the bike tonight; I got the sync screws and springs out (thanks for the towel tip), choke slide off, and most of the rail screws safely broken free with my best-fitting philips bit. A few did not want to move, so going to pick up some JIS screwdrivers (EDIT: Damn, Harbor Freight doesn't carry them...) I think that should be put in Carbs101 as well, as I did not know about JIS until a few days ago. Perhaps I missed a sticky.

                            You can pretty quickly tell if it's OEM type air filter. 4 small screws and it comes right off. Or look inside the hole for the intake, and see if you can see the element. White paper type is OEM, red is generally a K&N, black is normally a foam filter.
                            Think I have an old paper one. Here's a pic. A new one seems prudent.
                            https://i.imgbox.com/lNs9qS0E.jpg


                            I will be buying the dip soon, and if I don't hit any roadblocks potentially starting the dip on Saturday, which means I have to take all the rubber out as you were saying. I have all the Carbs101 stuff out of the carbs - I saw the choke plunger surrounds were rubber. Are there any other bits of rubber hiding anywhere, or anything else you suggest to do after pulling them apart, before dunking them?

                            Thanks Krey!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Heeltoeclutch View Post
                              This thread is becoming a veritable gold mine of knowledge. Thanks! I think it would be great for this to be captured in Carbs101.

                              Had a small amount of time to work on the bike tonight; I got the sync screws and springs out (thanks for the towel tip), choke slide off, and most of the rail screws safely broken free with my best-fitting philips bit. A few did not want to move, so going to pick up some JIS screwdrivers (EDIT: Damn, Harbor Freight doesn't carry them...) I think that should be put in Carbs101 as well, as I did not know about JIS until a few days ago. Perhaps I missed a sticky.



                              Think I have an old paper one. Here's a pic. A new one seems prudent.
                              https://i.imgbox.com/lNs9qS0E.jpg


                              I will be buying the dip soon, and if I don't hit any roadblocks potentially starting the dip on Saturday, which means I have to take all the rubber out as you were saying. I have all the Carbs101 stuff out of the carbs - I saw the choke plunger surrounds were rubber. Are there any other bits of rubber hiding anywhere, or anything else you suggest to do after pulling them apart, before dunking them?

                              Thanks Krey!
                              Yep, looks like an OEM that needs replaced to me. Lol.

                              Other rubber... No, if you have them split... choke rails, slide guides, main and pilot jets, float rails, diaphrams, Air / Fuel screws all out of the bodies... that should cover all rubber.

                              I normally take the orings off things like the float rails, seperate them... and soak the rails/floats too in the carb dip. The rails have jets in them for the choke.

                              After the soak, use carb aerosol spray through all of the ports. Make sure every one has spray come out the same way. What I mean by that is pay attention to the flow. Does it dribble out on one, but come out a fine stream on another? That's a clear sign of something still being blocked. (There shouldn't be any that dribble fyi... all of them should have large enough clear ports that the flow isn't interrupted, it's the jets that "restrict" the flow.)

                              Other things I do...

                              Use compressed air 120psi to blow out the carbs after the spray rinse. Remove all liquids, helps to further blow anything lurking inside out, and helps to remove any dip from the felt gaskets on the linkage.

                              (This is definitely not necessary, but if you wanted "pretty" you can blast the bodies with baking soda to remove any stains at this point, make them look like new. You would need to remove the linkage to do this, and when I do I further polish all brass with a buffing wheel. This would require new screws for the butterflies though, so I don't normally recommend you do this unless your really invested in it.)

                              Get some 600-800 grit sand paper. Put the paper on a flat surface, place the black plastic caps on the sand paper and and lightly move it back and forth. Then, pick up the cap and look at the bottom (the side that seals to the diaphrams) and check them for even surface. If the sanded surface shows imperfections, sand a little more until those are removed. Always on a flat surface so it stays even. The caps are bad to have grind marks, flashing, or just uneven surface which makes vacuum leaks very common and possible there.

                              As you assemble, machine oil is a good option for the linkages. It helps keep the butterflies from sticking.

                              Once fully assembled make sure you bench sync the carbs.

                              Final tests I do... actuate the butterflies... do a slow open and close. Listen and feel for any hitches or catching or clicking. Open them all the way open, and let them snap closed. Check again for any hitches, catching or clicking. Once ready to put them on the bike, I suggest a leak test on the bench first. Put them in a catch bin up right like they would sit on the bike, connect a fuel source and let it flow. Let them sit couple hours to 24 hours, see if anything leaks. (dont' walk away and come back 2 hours later, I'd suggest checking much more frequently to catch leaking as soon as it's happening). If no leaks, they are already primed and ready to go on the bike.

                              Leave the air filter out of the air box. Put the cables on the carbs before mounting (easier to turn / adjust things for me, but having them mounted firmly might be easier for you). Put the carbs on the boots. (a light lube on the rubbers helps them slide on if they are being difficult). Once the carbs are mounted, put the air box on. You can reach into the box and push each boot on individually and hold it in place as you tighten the clamps down. Makes box instal simple that way.

                              Speaking of box, make sure those boots on the box are clean and sealed tightly. You will probably find the boot/box join has some dried up crusty sealant. If the boots are not sealed right, then remove them... clean both box and boot, reinstall with a gasket sealer to seal them to the box. Pay attention to the boot order (they are on the box in a specific order) and that he boots tab matches the 2 post marks on the air box for alignment. If a boot will spin, it's not sealed. Don't have to be heavy handed with the sealer, a little goes a long way.

                              Krey
                              93 750 Kat



                              Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

                              "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

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